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caulfield12

After Washburn and Byrd, KW is looking at this list

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Brandon Backe HOU (still don't like him after the way he acted like a horse's a-- in the 2005 World Series, but live arm if healthy)

Miguel Batista SEA (another veteran Seattle would like to move, along with Washburn and possibly a huge deal for Bedard)

Josh Beckett * BOS

Erik Bedard SEA (don't think this deal will go through until the off-season, unless the Yankees or a similar team can pull off a blockbuster deal)

Chris Capuano MIL (good K to BB ratio, but very MEHH year so far)

Jose Contreras CWS (ouf for one year, minimum)

Doug Davis ARZ (struggling mightily in recent outings, recovery from testicular cancer an amazing story)

Justin Duchscherer OAK (see Bedard)

Adam Eaton * PHI (abysmal year so far...should be available to risk-takers out there)

Kelvim Escobar LAA

Mike Hampton ATL (Mr. Injury)

Rich Harden CHC

Tim Hudson * ATL (out for at least one year with TJ, if not done for career)

John Lackey LAA

Cliff Lee * CLE

Jason Marquis CHC (remember when the White Sox owned that guy in 06?)

Mark Mulder STL (typically KW reclamation project...could be a possibility with muchos incentivos, like Freddy Garcia)

Brett Myers PHI (would the Phillies dare trade another huge upside pitcher who's struggling to the White Sox???)

Vicente Padilla * TEX (might be an option, has always had a very good arm, so-so results, like Vazquez)

Brad Penny LAD (huge disappointment, just off the DL, would the Dodgers give him up without a pretty high return in $$$ or prospects?)

Joel Pineiro STL (Cards might make him available if they fall a few more games off the pace)

Jason Schmidt LAD (probably out for season)

John Smoltz * ATL (career in jeopardy)

Claudio Vargas NYM (could be used out of the pen or as a starter)

Brandon Webb * ARZ (yes, virginia, there is a santa claus)

Todd Wellemeyer STL (one of the best starters possibly available from a statistics standpoint, but not far removed from oblivion with KC Royals)

 

Asterisk means this guy COULD be a possibility for a KW deal in the next 2 weeks

 

 

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2010

 

Starting Pitchers

Brandon Backe HOU

Miguel Batista SEA

Josh Beckett * BOS

Erik Bedard SEA

Chris Capuano MIL

Jose Contreras CWS

Doug Davis ARZ

Justin Duchscherer OAK

Adam Eaton * PHI

Kelvim Escobar LAA

Mike Hampton ATL

Rich Harden CHC

Tim Hudson * ATL

John Lackey LAA

Cliff Lee * CLE

Jason Marquis CHC

Mark Mulder STL

Brett Myers PHI

Vicente Padilla * TEX

Brad Penny LAD

Joel Pineiro STL

Jason Schmidt LAD

John Smoltz * ATL

Claudio Vargas NYM

Jarrod Washburn SEA

Brandon Webb * ARZ

Todd Wellemeyer STL

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I don't get the asterisks. There's no way Webb or Beckett are going anywhere this year. Did I misunderstand something?

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QUOTE (jackie hayes @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 09:29 AM)
You already posted this list in TW, and it didn't make any sense there, either.

 

 

Simple...you have to use forward thinking.

 

1) We need a starting pitcher (and maybe 2, perhaps Ramirez is one of them) for Contreras and possibly Danks if he tires

2) We almost never enter the open bidding process for a FA pitcher in the offseason

3) When we make an acquisition, it's almost always (see Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez, etc.) a pitcher who we have under contract control or feel very confident we can get to sign a long-term deal

4) Washburn fits this profile...of someone we would keep next year, and even though $10.35 million seems like a lot of money, it's similar to what Contreras was going to receive AND the odds of getting anyone for less (and not having to give them 3-6 years) are minimal at best from the FA market

5) It's KW's style to find an underrated/undervalued pitcher with talent...but not one that we would just "rent" for a couple of months

6) Having them signed through next year gives us payroll certainty but not the commitment to a long-term deal that might blow up in our faces, as most of those contracts (see Zito or Hampton) tend to do

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:48 AM)
Simple...you have to use forward thinking.

 

1) We need a starting pitcher (and maybe 2, perhaps Ramirez is one of them) for Contreras and possibly Danks if he tires

2) We almost never enter the open bidding process for a FA pitcher in the offseason

3) When we make an acquisition, it's almost always (see Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez, etc.) a pitcher who we have under contract control or feel very confident we can get to sign a long-term deal

4) Washburn fits this profile...of someone we would keep next year, and even though $10.35 million seems like a lot of money, it's similar to what Contreras was going to receive AND the odds of getting anyone for less (and not having to give them 3-6 years) are minimal at best from the FA market

5) It's KW's style to find an underrated/undervalued pitcher with talent...but not one that we would just "rent" for a couple of months

6) Having them signed through next year gives us payroll certainty but not the commitment to a long-term deal that might blow up in our faces, as most of those contracts (see Zito or Hampton) tend to do

 

So your forward thinking is that Beckett, Webb, Bedard, Lee, Escobar, Harden, etc etc etc will pass through waivers and their respective teams will be willing to deal them to us. God, if only I had thought forward!

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:48 AM)
3) When we make an acquisition, it's almost always (see Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez, etc.) a pitcher who we have under contract control or feel very confident we can get to sign a long-term deal

 

You want Kenny to trade for John Smoltz, Mike Hampton, or Mark Mulder and then sign them to an extension? I sure don't.

 

Kenny's probably not going to sign any pitcher he trades for this season to an extension. Not with Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd under contract for the next couple of seasons.

 

Many of the players on your list (Webb, Harden, Lackey, Lee, Beckett, Hudson, etc.) are going to command well in excess of $50 million guaranteed. The Sox almost never give that kind of money to free agent veteran pitchers. Kenny tends to limit himself to trading for guys with $30 million left on their deals and I don't think that he's looking towards the 2010 rotation just yet.

 

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QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 08:31 AM)
I don't get the asterisks. There's no way Webb or Beckett are going anywhere this year. Did I misunderstand something?

Yeah, I like how Beckett, Webb, and Lee are more possible than Jason Marquis. You'd need like 5 PS3's, 7 XBOX's, 15 bags of crack, and like 4 bucketfuls of roofies just to get one of those teams to make one of those players available and then convince everyone else to let them through waivers unclaimed. And if you could pull that off, we're still talking truckloads of KY and the services of about 1/4 of all the female independent contractors South America has to offer if we're to convince a GM to give one of those guys up for what we've got on the farm.

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QUOTE (jackie hayes @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:20 AM)
So your forward thinking is that Beckett, Webb, Bedard, Lee, Escobar, Harden, etc etc etc will pass through waivers and their respective teams will be willing to deal them to us. God, if only I had thought forward!

 

 

First, as is obviosly denoted (didn't think I needed to provide an explanation to more serious baseball fans), the ones that are underlined are the ones that KW will be considering.

 

It's the full list...I don't think anywhere on there I mentioned that KW was going to be able to trade for any of those pitchers.

 

Although I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he took a stab at someone like Bedard for Fields, Poreda, Silverio/Martinez and a B level pitching prospect.

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:28 AM)
You want Kenny to trade for John Smoltz, Mike Hampton, or Mark Mulder and then sign them to an extension? I sure don't.

 

Kenny's probably not going to sign any pitcher he trades for this season to an extension. Not with Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd under contract for the next couple of seasons.

 

Many of the players on your list (Webb, Harden, Lackey, Lee, Beckett, Hudson, etc.) are going to command well in excess of $50 million guaranteed. The Sox almost never give that kind of money to free agent veteran pitchers. Kenny tends to limit himself to trading for guys with $30 million left on their deals and I don't think that he's looking towards the 2010 rotation just yet.

 

 

No, that's why they are not underlined...

 

Smoltz and Mulder might never pitch again in the major leagues...only our medical staff could determine their situations after doing some due diligence, but I am pretty sure Smoltz is either done or he will try to make his comeback with the Braves.

 

Mulder might draw a little interest, but less than Freddy Garcia did after his recent tryout...not until he can at least throw 86-89 MPH again.

 

Vazquez is the most obvious candidate to move, with Contreras done. However, you have to consider 1) whether we will get anything worthwhile in return based on his performance the last 6-8 weeks, 2) whether he's going to bounce back again next year, and the likelihood of finding anyone who can come close to leading the AL in strikeouts, 3) whether it's safe for KW to take the $20-30 million he was going to invest in Javier and Contreras and put it into a veteran (at least 3 years of service) pitcher.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 06:31 PM)
Smoltz and Mulder might never pitch again in the major leagues...only our medical staff could determine their situations after doing some due diligence, but I am pretty sure Smoltz is either done or he will try to make his comeback with the Braves.

 

Mulder might draw a little interest

 

Smoltz and Mulder are both done.

 

Vazquez is the most obvious candidate to move,

 

With Contreras done and nobody in our farm system ready yet, Kenny's probably not going to move Vazquez.

 

3) whether it's safe for KW to take the $20-30 million he was going to invest in Javier and Contreras and put it into a veteran (at least 3 years of service) pitcher.

 

I don't know who this theoretical guy with 2-3 years left on his deal to replace Vazquez is. Most of the people you mentioned in your list are either much better than Vazquez, significant downgrades from Vazquez, or complete garbage.

Edited by WCSox

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 09:38 PM)
Smoltz and Mulder are both done.

 

 

 

With Contreras done and nobody in our farm system ready yet, Kenny's probably not going to move Vazquez.

 

 

 

I don't know who this theoretical guy with 2-3 years left on his deal to replace Vazquez is. Most of the people you mentioned in your list are either much better than Vazquez, significant downgrades from Vazquez, or complete garbage.

 

 

That's obviously the problem KW has...he can't afford to go out and get Penny, Padilla or even Brett Myers, who would be a huge risk down the stretch. He probably can't even afford to give up what they're asking for Washburn. It is a little mysterious about Byrd though...the guy's a veteran, knows the AL Central as well as anyone, he beat Contreras in the 2005 playoffs when he was clearly the best pitcher in baseball and he would bring that "bulldog" (the pitching version of grinder) mentality to the pitching staff. Vazquez just seems too nonchalant about his losses...the same thing Garland was oft-accused of.

 

OTOH, any of the band-aid solutions cost the White Sox further minor league depth and still probably leave us short of the playoffs. He's in a really precarious situation where he will tempted to overreach, especially if we are within shouting distance after the Twins' current homestand is over and the Twins are 2-3 games ahead of us (probably).

 

 

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 09:32 PM)
I wouldn't touch Bedard with a f***ing 23 foot pole.

 

 

Any GM who has seen us when he was absolutely "on" against another team, like he has been against the White Sox a few times over the last 2-3 seasons would give it serious consideration. Like Vazquez, sometimes he looks like a 1-2 starter, sometimes like a 4/5. Then there's the whole "well, Coop can fix him" mentality Sox fans have about every pitcher who comes our way.

 

Well, that didn't work so well with Aardsma, Sisco, MacDougal, etc. Although I know Matt Thornton gives him a lot of credit for simplifying things for him and just getting him to go out there and throw strikes (well, at least until yesterday's game).

 

I think we can consider ourselves fortunate to escape with a split from this series.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:28 AM)
Asterisk means this guy COULD be a possibility for a KW deal in the next 2 weeks

 

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 09:25 PM)
It's the full list...I don't think anywhere on there I mentioned that KW was going to be able to trade for any of those pitchers.

 

No. Oh, well, except for where you posted the exact same list with the exact same formatting and said that Webb and Beckett were possibilities for KW deals in the next 2 weeks. But, no, other than that, nowhere at all. Boy, am I embarrassed for misreading that one! I'm glad I have more serious baseball fans like you around to straighten me out. How soon can we get Mulder here? That guy's awesome. He pitches for the Philadelphia A's, right?

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