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Swish Traded to the Yankees

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QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:47 PM)
I'm telling you guys, Sweeney's gonna break out next year with a full year of pro-ball under his belt. He might not be some super star, but he'd be a solid piece on any team. I think he'd play great D in LF for us (He could play RF with his arm, but I like my LF's to throw lefty, and my RF's to throw righty), hit around .290 or higher, not K a ton, get a lot of doubles, hit at least 15 homers (if not in the 20's), and be a very solid run producer.

 

 

Well, I guess it will be interesting to see who has more impact next season at the MLB level...Betemit, Nunez and Marquez, or Ryan Sweeney?

 

I don't think we'll see Gio Gonzalez again as a starter again with the A's, maybe out of the bullpen. He didn't have one quality start. He did have a couple of nice outings, but his ERA reached almost 10 at one point.

 

6 IP, 4 ER (TOR)

5 IP, 1 ER (against TB, that's more impressive)

5 IP, 2 ER/4 R (at Seattle)

 

But he really got his pitch count up...he just couldn't go deep into any of his starts, past 6.0 IP.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:54 PM)
Well, I guess it will be interesting to see who has more impact next season at the MLB level...Betemit, Nunez and Marquez, or Ryan Sweeney?

 

I don't think we'll see Gio Gonzalez again as a starter again with the A's, maybe out of the bullpen. He didn't have one quality start. He did have a couple of nice outings, but his ERA reached almost 10 at one point.

 

6 IP, 4 ER (TOR)

5 IP, 1 ER (against TB, that's more impressive)

5 IP, 2 ER/4 R (at Seattle)

 

But he really got his pitch count up...he just couldn't go deep into any of his starts, past 6.0 IP.

 

Kazmir has been doing the same. Gimme a young Kazmir any day of the week.

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QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:40 PM)
Are you really trying to compare a utility man who lost his starting job to a guy who was shoved into CF most of the year? VORP doesn't mean much for players at defensive position because it only takes in account OPS at that position. That's why guys like Swisher and Mack in CF don't look so bad on paper. It's also the same argument people try to make how Pedroia is a better hitter than some first basemen or DH's.

You're right. I was wrong to use VORP, which factors in playing time. However, the fact that Swisher has a higher OBP and SLG despite having a significantly lower AVG (largely in part to his terrible BABIP) is a very telling fact that he had a better offensive season than Uribe, and it isn't particularly close. Say what you want about how bad Swisher did, but despite being incredibly unlucky he was still a much better player than Uribe (whose BABIP was much closer the league norm).

 

I'm talking offense here, not defense. That was the whole premise here with Dick Allen asking if I thought Uribe had a better year offensively. Feel free to mention defense if you want, but that brings up a whole other worm.

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QUOTE (Felix @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:58 PM)
Feel free to mention defense if you want, but that brings up a whole other worm.

I can honestly say that I have never heard that phrase in my life until just now.

 

 

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QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:09 PM)
I don't know if it's been posted already, but here's a scouting report on Marquez... I think he has a chance to be a decent starter in the league, if that scouting report is indeed accurate.

 

http://mariners.scout.com/a.z?s=318&p=2&c=347065

Its a scouting report from 2005. It has his ETA as 2007. I'm thinking he hasn't lived up to the report. KW has hit the jackpot on a few pitchers, he's also crapped out on several. I think expecting either of the 2 guys acquired today to be contributors in 2009 is a reach.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2008 -> 03:05 AM)
Its a scouting report from 2005. It has his ETA as 2007. I'm thinking he hasn't lived up to the report. KW has hit the jackpot on a few pitchers, he's also crapped out on several. I think expecting either of the 2 guys acquired today to be contributors in 2009 is a reach.

 

I honestly can't believe KW said he could be a starter for the big league team this upcoming season.

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Joba, Kennedy and Hughes are the three arms everybody in baseball wanted from the Yankees.

 

Not the two we got.

 

Kenny deserves the benefit of the doubt for the deals he made for Danks, Floyd and Quentin.

 

But I hold my breath every time he makes a deal because he is usually runs the risk of paying too much.

 

and he has certainly acquired his share of scrappers.

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 07:11 PM)
Joba, Kennedy and Hughes are the three arms everybody in baseball wanted from the Yankees.

 

Not the two we got.

 

Kenny deserves the benefit of the doubt for the deals he made for Danks, Floyd and Quentin.

 

But I hold my breath every time he makes a deal because he is usually runs the risk of paying too much.

 

and he has certainly acquired his share of scrappers.

On the other hand though...here's an honest question. When is the last time the Yankees traded kids for a veteran and we wound up feeling like the Yankees shouldn't regret the move? There were guys all over baseball for the last 10 years who started off in the Yankee system and got traded away who became quite good.

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how about this from the New York Daily News:

 

"The Yankees believe Swisher’s poor average was a function of a strained relationship with Chisox manager Ozzie Guillen, major-league sources said."

 

Swishy no likey Ozzie.

 

If true, we'll hear more because Swish likes to talk. But that must be the buzz among scouts.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:05 PM)
Its a scouting report from 2005. It has his ETA as 2007. I'm thinking he hasn't lived up to the report. KW has hit the jackpot on a few pitchers, he's also crapped out on several. I think expecting either of the 2 guys acquired today to be contributors in 2009 is a reach.

 

Nunez >>> Adam Russell for sure

 

We'll see Nunez worked slowly into the bullpen, with the eventually idea that he becomes a replacement for Dotel. The White Sox can either sit on Dotel's contract and hope he doesn't hurt and we can get Type A compensation down the line...or we deal his salary, which is quite high for a set-up man, and trade him to a team desperate for a closer at below $10 million per season.

 

Marquez will be given an opportunity to compete with Richard, Broadway, Carrasco, Egbert, etc., coming into ST.

 

I mean, how many here really expected Gavin Floyd to explode on the scene after the way he ended up mentally a basket case in PHILLY? If you also thought Ramirez and Quentin would be ROY, All-Star, MVP caliber players for the Sox from the day we acquired them...well, there aren't very many posts to back that up. With Quentin and Danks, you knew the talent was there.

 

Look at it this way...we have another arm (a former first rounder, just like Broadway or McCulloch) that another team was once really high on, in fact, he was considered a Top 10 prospect as little as one season ago. As BA noted, Nunez has the most upside. And Betemit might end up surprising a few people...it's not the like the guy's on the wrong side of 30, he's around Alexei's age, although he seems older because he's been a prospect for so long.

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QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 08:56 PM)
Kazmir has been doing the same. Gimme a young Kazmir any day of the week.

 

 

Are you really comparing Kazmir's stuff/ability with Gio Gonzalez?

 

I think that Gio is closer to Arnie Munoz/Mike Porzio/Josh Stewart right now than Kazmir. He has a pretty good hook, but the Zito hype was a bit much. It's not as good as Gavin's when he is on...and his fastball tends to be pretty flat, and the velocity isn't all that overwhelming either.

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like Floyd, Marquez has been pitching in the Arizona Fall League.

 

Kenny Williams and his top scouts are out there watching. I'm sure they had Coop or Kirk Champion take a look.

 

they must see something they like.

 

And they must be convinced Swish can't cut it no mo. Kenny laid it on pretty thick about how he expects Swishy to bounce back.

 

I just hope this doesn't trumpet the arrival of the Jerry Owens Era in CF.

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:20 PM)
how about this from the New York Daily News:

 

"The Yankees believe Swisher’s poor average was a function of a strained relationship with Chisox manager Ozzie Guillen, major-league sources said."

 

Swishy no likey Ozzie.

 

If true, we'll hear more because Swish likes to talk. But that must be the buzz among scouts.

 

No secret that O-Cabrera and Swisher weren't great fans of Ozzie. Well, duh. But here's the thing, what does it tell you that Ozzie was starting DeWayne Wise over you in the most important games of the season?

 

Ozzie will always have his detractors...but, when it comes down to it...he's managed to push the 2005 and 2008 teams over the hump when their backs were against the wall and many skeptical fans were giving them up for dead. Swisher, in many ways, his actions in the clubhouse and on the bench, acted like he had quit when he stopped playing everyday, and more like someone trying out for the daytime Emmy's or SNL.

 

I don't think it's any surprise Hall is also out the door...there's a few things I'm sure we're not privy to (besides the reaction of Dye to the pie in the face one too many times)...but KW seems to be cleaning house and trying to get rid of the round pegs that don't fit into the square holes.

 

Good luck in NY Nick, you'll need it.

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:36 PM)
like Floyd, Marquez has been pitching in the Arizona Fall League.

 

Kenny Williams and his top scouts are out there watching. I'm sure they had Coop or Kirk Champion take a look.

 

they must see something they like.

 

And they must be convinced Swish can't cut it no mo. Kenny laid it on pretty thick about how he expects Swishy to bounce back.

 

I just hope this doesn't trumpet the arrival of the Jerry Owens Era in CF.

 

Not when Taveras is out there for Broadway or Adam Russell and CoCo Crisp (who KW has always liked) is available.

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 07:38 PM)
Not when Taveras is out there for Broadway or Adam Russell and CoCo Crisp (who KW has always liked) is available.

I think the Red Sox might be more hesitant to trade crisp now than last year. Crisp only has 1 year left on his contract (option for $8 million in 2010), which means that the Sox might well be able to turn him in to 2 draft picks at the end of next season, while he's a really, really useful 4th OF behind Ellsbury, oft-injured Drew, and Bay.

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So anyone know who else we got yet, assuming we got someone else? It just doesn't make sense that we didn't...

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QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 09:47 PM)
So anyone know who else we got yet, assuming we got someone else? It just doesn't make sense that we didn't...

 

 

Nobody wanted Swisher SUPER badly, so we had to clear FA dollars with a dump. Hopefully we get something good to make up for it.

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Bye bye Swish. You might resurrect your career as a Yankee and make KW look bad, but I thought you simply sucked.

 

I am not in the clubhouse, but I would bet 10,000 bucks that Swish's little b****fest on that last road trip when he sulked at the decrease in his playing time made Oz pretty much tell KW to get rid of the guy. Maybe Steff can set us straight on Swish's relationship with Oz/KW after that last road trip. If insiders tell me I'm wrong, I'll accept it.

 

I don't wish ill will on the guy, but like one poster on here said, I also will not miss his backwards Ks. Man he had one s***ty season with the White Sox.

 

Hope Betemit is productive. Cause we gave up a lot in the initial trade FOR Swish.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 10:36 PM)
I just hope this doesn't trumpet the arrival of the Jerry Owens Era in CF.

I think we'll see BA again before Owens gets a shot.

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I think they make a run at Hudson or Furcal to lead off and give CF to Anderson.

 

Ramirez will be the fall back in CF with the likes of Nix, Betemit, Getz, and Beckman for fall back middle of the infield guys.

 

I think Danks takes CF or RF in 2010 which is why Anderson/Ramirez will be out there next year instead of a longer term guaranteed guy.

 

I think the singing and dancing caught up with ole Nick.

 

I think the Mets take a run at Dunn and K-Rod before looking at Jenks and Dye. Jenks will not be moved until the big free agents are signed.

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I know that the whole idea of sites like this is essentially to second guess everything our GM does, but what the hell does Kenny Williams need to do to gain the respect of the folks who post on this cite. As best as I can tell, the tone towards the moves he makes is continuously critical. The vast majority of posters here think Kenny always overpays in the trades he makes. And, the vast majority think he sucks at drafting talent.

 

I am left to wonder by what stroke of incredible luck does he manage to come up with players like Carlos Quentin, Alexi Ramirez, John Danks, Jermaine Dye, Bobby Jenks, Tadahito Iguchi, AJ, Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, etc...

 

It's not that I don't think its acceptable to question Kenny's decisions. It's simply that there is a stupid level of criticism towards him in which it is continuously suggested that somehow he has a history of bad decisions when frankly the opposite is true.

Edited by thomsonmi

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I am left to wonder by what stroke of incredible luck does he manage to come up with players like Carlos Quentin, Alexi Ramirez, John Danks, Jermaine Dye, Bobby Jenks, Tadahito Iguchi, AJ, Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, etc...

I'm a huge Kenny Williams fan but it's worth noting that none of those players were drafted by the White Sox.

 

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I should add that anyone who thinks Kenny Williams is building for the future really doesn't pay attention. During KW's entire tenure as GM, can anyone identify a single season in which he built the team around the primary idea that he was building for the future? It's simply not in KW's genetic code to care about the future. The man is trying to build the best team he can year in and year out. When guessing his move I would suggest folks consider his past history. The White Sox are not building for 2010. They are in it to win now.

Edited by thomsonmi

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QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 13, 2008 -> 11:29 PM)
I'm a huge Kenny Williams fan but it's worth noting that none of those players were drafted by the White Sox.

 

A whole bunch of them were acquired with players whom KW did draft.

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I have changed over the years from KW skeptic to supporter.

 

The 2005 WS championship had something to do with it, of course, but he's also gotten better as time as gone by...not shaking up things or making trades just to be aggressive, but thinking strategically and more long-term, rather than just putting the best possible team together to win the World Series each season (he's also learned that for every Ramirez/Quentin, there are many more Julio Ramirezes, D'Angelo Jimenezes, Royce Clayton's or Kenny Lofton's that can seriously mess up your clubhouse chemistry...you can add O-Cab and Swisher to that list as well).

 

If I wasn't convinced before, the transition from 07 to 08 really did the trick.

 

He's earned our respect and patience/confidence.

 

We have to sit back and see what happens before Spring Training...but, as always, a premature rush to conclusions does no good.

 

In the early years, he had some bad trades like the Ritchie one, Adkins for Durham, Berry/Barry disaster with the LA Dodgers...but he's gotten better and better.

 

If you look at all the players we've jettisoned over the years, which ones would definitely make our ballclub in 2009?

 

I can think of only a couple...Frank Francisco out of the bullpen as a set-up guy (potential closer) and Ryan Sweeney, who I'd take over Anderson/Wise, etc., as the fourth outfielder, but not as the starter in CF.

 

Other than those two names...and Chris B. Young (that trade has been argued to death, I've always been on the side of Chris Young over Javy)...who have we actually lost?

 

Rauch? Well, he was a failed starter, and there were a lot of chemistry/personality issues with the front office behind the scenes...the return from his labrum injury (he didn't work with Sox staff/trainers like he was expected to), his "overconfidence" when he was barely touching 90 MPH yet thinking he should have a spot in the rotation.

 

McCarthy?

 

Besides that, you have Rowand/Thome, but I think we're better off with Jim's big LH bat...and that homer against the Twinkies will always hold a special place in our hearts now.

Edited by caulfield12

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