Swish Traded to the Yankees

[chiguy79]

See ya Swish, enjoy watching called 3rd strikes on the Yankees, and I am sure you will do as well as your former A's teammate Giambi on the Yanks.

 

I am all for flexibility and this is what KW achieved with this trade, he didn't want Swish on the team for years without a position, Konerko/Quentin aren't going anywhere so there was no position, Uribe is not the answer for super sub so we replaced him and he can try to find a starting job. I am fine with this free up some flexibility.

 

I am also sure Reinsdorf wants to minimize his exposure to long contracts with the economic issues going on, who knows 18 months from know things could be pretty ugly and I for one think JR is going to play it prudently, I am sure many teams with high debt levels are going to go BK or need to be bailed out by the other owners.

[caulfield12]

A whole bunch of them were acquired with players whom KW did draft.

 

 

Criticizing KW because we don't have enough homegrown Credes/Rowands/Buehrle's to cheer on for ten years or so as they develop in our system is kind of getting a little bit nitpicky.

 

Sure, I'd like to have Chris Young patrolling CF as much as the next person...but KW has always done a very good job of realistically appraising what he has on his 25 man, 40 man and minor league depth charts (the Big Board) and using those chess pieces to help him put together the most competitive team each season.

 

When it looked like he needed to rebuild, he kept Dye/Buehrle and had the magic touch with bringing in four incredibly talented young players to revitalize our core.

 

Turning Borchard into Thornton, getting Jenks for nothing, Ramirez for nothing (when all the other teams were laughing at us behind our backs....we'll see the laughing now about Viciedo, NOT!)...Garcia for Morse/Reed/Olivo, he's just been very, very efficient at identifying the players he likes and going out to acquire them. Perhaps, in my opinion, the most important move of his GM career was bringing over Contreras, because he was the horse/ace that this team has very rarely had in the last decade. Contreras, for a 4-5 month stretch of 05/06, was undoubtedly the best pitcher in baseball.

 

Whether it has worked (Marte for Guerrier) or not (David Wells, Colon, Ritchie, Swisher, Cabrera, Alex Cintron, Mackowiak), he always is thinking almost like a fan and less of a GM. That can be a weakness, but I see it as a strength as well. He's also learned the importance of pitching depth and balance (speed/defense), and you'll see him correct the 06-07 errors going forward...

Edited November 14, 2008 by caulfield12

[chunk23]

I would say the Garland-Cabrera trade worked for us pretty well. We get 2 draft picks compared to the Angels 1. Not to mention Danks and Floyd, one of whom wouldn't have been in the rotation with Garland here, pitched better than he did.

[caulfield12]

With Uribe getting further decreased playing time in 09, I don't think it would make any sense to keep him around hoping to get a compensation pick.

 

Thanks for the memories, Juan. I never missed Aaron Miles like some of his grinder groupies.

Edited November 14, 2008 by caulfield12

[kjshoe04]

Thanks for the memories, Juan. I never missed Aaron Miles like some of his grinder groupies.

I'm with you on that. That was really a heck of a trade if you ask me. Juan is twice the player Miles is/ever was.

[caulfield12]

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....rs-and-sen.html

 

KW on the trade, some interesting/telling quotes.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

There's no way that I believe that Kenny could not have gotten 1 good player back for Swisher from any team. Not one team would offer a solid regular thirdbaseman, secondbaseman, starting picther, relief pitcher, outfielder or B prospect?

 

I don't believe it. The Yankees wouldn't have offered Ian Kennedy straight up for him? Or any of their top 10 prospects? I don't believe it.

 

And, and, and the Sox throw in a solid pitching prospect, too? I'm sorry but I think this trade will go down with the Todd Ritchie trade.

 

I know that Kenny has proven himself to be an excellent GM to me and I want to give every deal the benefit of the doubt. But, I can't with this one.

 

There's no way that Swisher is going to suck for the rest of his career. And, more importantly, other teams such as the Yankees don't believe that. He had to be worth something and he gave him away for nothing.

 

I'll go on record right now as saying that none of these 3 players will amount to anything for the White Sox - next year or ever. Unbelievable.

 

If I'm wrong on this one then Kenny is a magician and I'll never question him again. But, I still say this is Todd Ritchie part 2.

[DukeNukeEm]

The Yankees wouldn't have offered Ian Kennedy straight up for him?

Why on earth would they do that?

[Cowch]

Maybe our tex was thrown in so we can get the real tex.

[caulfield12]

There's no way that I believe that Kenny could not have gotten 1 good player back for Swisher from any team. Not one team would offer a solid regular thirdbaseman, secondbaseman, starting picther, relief pitcher, outfielder or B prospect?

 

I don't believe it. The Yankees wouldn't have offered Ian Kennedy straight up for him? Or any of their top 10 prospects? I don't believe it.

 

And, and, and the Sox throw in a solid pitching prospect, too? I'm sorry but I think this trade will go down with the Todd Ritchie trade.

 

I know that Kenny has proven himself to be an excellent GM to me and I want to give every deal the benefit of the doubt. But, I can't with this one.

 

There's no way that Swisher is going to suck for the rest of his career. And, more importantly, other teams such as the Yankees don't believe that. He had to be worth something and he gave him away for nothing.

 

I'll go on record right now as saying that none of these 3 players will amount to anything for the White Sox - next year or ever. Unbelievable.

 

If I'm wrong on this one then Kenny is a magician and I'll never question him again. But, I still say this is Todd Ritchie part 2.

 

And you've seen how many of those three guys....maybe Betemit...play how much?

 

What did you say on the day we acquired the following players:

 

Marte

Contreras

Jenks

Thornton

Ramirez

Quentin

Floyd

Olivo (BB really suckered KW, right!?)

Dye

Garcia

Danks

Pods

Iguchi

Takatsu

Hermanson

Cotts

Politte

El Duque

etc.

 

Comparing this to Ritchie is crazy. Ritchie was going to be a frontline starter, maybe a 3, no worse than a 4.

 

Swisher didn't have a position on this team going forward, with the presence of Dye/Quentin/Thome/Konerko.

 

To compare the desperation of the Ritchie move (with a very solid prospect in K. Wells and a back of the rotation guy in Fogg) with dumping Swisher's contract on another team, well, there's no comparison here.

Edited November 14, 2008 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

There's no way that I believe that Kenny could not have gotten 1 good player back for Swisher from any team. Not one team would offer a solid regular thirdbaseman, secondbaseman, starting picther, relief pitcher, outfielder or B prospect?

 

I don't believe it. The Yankees wouldn't have offered Ian Kennedy straight up for him? Or any of their top 10 prospects? I don't believe it.

 

And, and, and the Sox throw in a solid pitching prospect, too? I'm sorry but I think this trade will go down with the Todd Ritchie trade.

 

I know that Kenny has proven himself to be an excellent GM to me and I want to give every deal the benefit of the doubt. But, I can't with this one.

 

There's no way that Swisher is going to suck for the rest of his career. And, more importantly, other teams such as the Yankees don't believe that. He had to be worth something and he gave him away for nothing.

 

I'll go on record right now as saying that none of these 3 players will amount to anything for the White Sox - next year or ever. Unbelievable.

 

If I'm wrong on this one then Kenny is a magician and I'll never question him again. But, I still say this is Todd Ritchie part 2.

 

 

Yes, I am sure the final offers were Kershaw, Price/Garza, Kennedy/Hughes and Homer Bailey all on the table for Swisher, but KW went with his scouts instead and chose this offer over all those exceedingly logical ones.

 

By the way, isn't Pods/Vizcaino for Carlos Lee actually Todd Ritchie II? Or Durham for Jon Adkins?

 

Ah...the Pods trade worked out in a way, didn't it? You also have to look at who KW uses that money on...like when we let Maggs/Lee/Valentin go and brought in El Duque, AJ, Hermanson, Pods, Iguchi, Vizcaino, etc.

Edited November 14, 2008 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Swisher was a mistake. Let's move on. Thank God KW chose Ozzie over Swisher. We got Betemit for him; hopefully Betemit will excel. I just wish Swisher was traded to Washington so I'd never have to see him on TV again.

[YASNY]

I've been reading all I can find on this trade, including this entire thread, so that I could gather enough info to at least make attempt at judging it. That said, here's my take on it.

 

First, I'm going to leave Nunez v. Texiera out of it because I'm looking at the 2009 Sox and the impact the deal will have on the team. Also, I say that in evaluating this trade today, as in right now, you have to forget the deal when Swisher was acquired. Today, that is not part of the equation. At the conclusion of '08 Nick Swisher was reduced to a utility/defensive replacement player on the Sox. He also did not fit with the team we have heading into '09. That is what we gave up in this deal. Now, will Swisher be closer to the '07 player than the '08 player in '09? Maybe, but that is the concern on the NNY now, not ours. In return, we two guys that are exactly the type of players KW has had success with acquiring and developing in the past. They are both relatively young players that haven't quite lived up to original projections. Regardless of how they were acquired, Quenten, Floyd, Thornton, Jenks and Ramirez all fit in that model. John Danks could be mentioned, but in my opinion, he is doing exactly what was expected. Betemit, at worse, should be a versatile supersub who just might finally live up to projections if he can get consistant playing time. I don't expect that from him, but it is possible because the guy has the physical tools. Marquez looks to me like a pitcher in the Floyd/Garland mold, think a young Garland here, in that he also has the ability but hasn't quite gotten over the hump yet. With the teams success rate in scouting, acquiring and developing these type of players, I think trade has potential to be a good one in the run. I don't think this will be one that we look back on through the same glasses we look at the Ritchie deal with.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

So anyone know who else we got yet, assuming we got someone else? It just doesn't make sense that we didn't...

 

Swisher had a terrible year, so no, that's all the Sox are getting. KW has even confirmed this.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

"If Dye doesn't get traded I hope someone on the Sox approaches Dye about playing some LF and DH for the good of the team. Trading Swisher would open up those possibilities even more. Even with no experience in LF Dye is no longer suited to RF full time."

 

That's what I said Nov. 7th in the " Phillies interested in Dye" thread. I also said somewhere that trading Vazquez would not be the 1st move KW makes because there was no way in hell KW would open up a hole in the starting pitching staff without more viable options than he had. He now has those options. This was the obvious 1st move of the off season. Does it make Vazquez the next to go ? Maybe but I still don't think its enough to fill a vacancy created by moving Javy. I think it lessens the chances of a Dye trade though there could always be an offer that KW can't refuse.

 

I'm excited because the KW plan has started unfolding. Look for much more to happen in the next 6-8 weeks. KW also has more prospects to trade now. If you're looking for a big name, think Brian Roberts or Carlos Beltran or more prospects from the Mets.

Edited November 14, 2008 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[G&T]

I've seen part of this posted earlier in the thread but this is from Rosenthal:

 

SWISHER: A NEEDED CHANGE

 

Some with the Yankees believe that White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was one of Swisher's problems; big personalities both, perhaps they were destined to clash.

 

Some with the White Sox, however, say that Swisher was a less-than- ideal teammate, at times acting selfishly, particularly when he was not hitting.

 

"We still love the guy and the energy he brings," Williams said. "We certainly believe he's going to have a bounce-back season next year. But we felt the fit just wasn't good enough to continue on down this road."

 

The question is, will Swisher be a better fit with the Yankees?

 

Williams said that Swisher hit into poor luck last season. Swisher's .249 batting average on balls in play supports that point. The American League average was .301.

 

On the other hand, if Swisher's brashness was an issue under Guillen, it might be even more of an issue under Joe Girardi, the Yankees' stern manager.

 

It also might not sit well in a clubhouse dominated by three of the game's great professionals — Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera.

 

The guess here is that Swisher will tone down his act, humbled by his experience with the White Sox. He has been traded twice in 11 months, and he turns 28 on Nov. 25. His career is at a crossroads.

 

More at Link

Edited November 14, 2008 by G&T

[Dick Allen]

Nobody wanted Swisher SUPER badly,

Which is shocking considering how unlucky he was last season and his very reasonable contract.

 

Even though I am a critic of his and don't understand how some people think every move he makes is gold, I am very proud of KW for cutting his losses quickly. He traded 2 pitching prospects and a major league ready player for Swisher and that's what he got back. I wonder if that's coincidence.

[NorthSideSox72]

"If Dye doesn't get traded I hope someone on the Sox approaches Dye about playing some LF and DH for the good of the team. Trading Swisher would open up those possibilities even more. Even with no experience in LF Dye is no longer suited to RF full time."

 

That's what I said Nov. 7th in the " Phillies interested in Dye" thread. I also said somewhere that trading Vazquez would not be the 1st move KW makes because there was no way in hell KW would open up a hole in the starting pitching staff without more viable options than he had. He now has those options. This was the obvious 1st move of the off season. Does it make Vazquez the next to go ? Maybe but I still don't think its enough to fill a vacancy created by moving Javy. I think it lessens the chances of a Dye trade though there could always be an offer that KW can't refuse.

 

I'm excited because the KW plan has started unfolding. Look for much more to happen in the next 6-8 weeks. KW also has more prospects to trade now. If you're looking for a big name, think Brian Roberts or Carlos Beltran or more prospects from the Mets.

I will always disagree with flipping Dye and TCQ between left and right. LF gets more balls hit that way, RF needs a stronger arm. To me, that means CQ, who is in better shape that Dye, is better suited to LF, whereas Dye still has a very strong arm and should stay in RF.

 

Of course ideally, Dye eventually becomes a DH. But Dye was really not as horrible in RF last year as some people seem to believe. He's headed downhill, but he wasn't the worst around.

 

[shipps]

Even though it was raining and cloudy this morning I woke up to sunshine in my baseball world.So long Swish.

[scenario]

I've read every article on this I can find.

 

Seems that the Sox spin is that they believe...

- Marquez is another Gavin Floyd type... a former first rounder who just needs a little Cooper tweaking and a chance to play.

- Nunez will be a solid power arm in the bullpen and is only a year away.

- Betemit will be a much cheaper veteran utility guy than Uribe... and that he provides security in case Fields struggles at third.

 

 

If all of the above are true, I could live with the deal. But... I still can't help thinking we could have done better at the winter meetings.

Edited November 14, 2008 by scenario

[ThunderBolt]

I have a suspicion that we’re going to make a very active push to acquire a reasonably big-name CF, but if we fail in doing so I imagine we’ll end up with Anderson in that position. What I think is going to happen is that we’ll playo u the season with the young core (Nix,Getz, Betemit, Fields) platooning, and the old core (Dye, Konerko, Thome) looked on to carry the load. I think the team given the expected improvements of the young players involved, as well as the overall weakness of the division can win about 80-82 game’s. But what I can really see happening is if this team is out of by the trade deadline we’re going to be bidding adieu to the old core, and essentially, preparing for 2010 with Beckham, and Danks 2, and maybe even Brandon Allen by the end of the year.

[kjshoe04]

Can I ask why everyone thinks Jordan Danks will be ready for a starting job in 2010?

[ThunderBolt]

Can I ask why everyone thinks Jordan Danks will be ready for a starting job in 2010?

Everything we hear about Danks is very telling about just how high the organization is on him. Furthermore, his play on the field (so far) has been consistently solid, and suggests that he could start at AA this year alongside Gordon Beckham. No one expects him to be up by the end of this year barring a massive purge of the old core, or a significant injury, but it is not ludicrous to suggest that 2 years could be a realistic ETA. The idea isn’t sending Danks out there expecting him to immediately usurp Dye in production, but rather give him some time to develop in the major In what could very much be a rebuilding year for the Chicago Whitesox.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[scenario]

Can I ask why everyone thinks Jordan Danks will be ready for a starting job in 2010?

 

I wondered that myself until I saw him. (I went to a few AFL games.) The guy is a freak athlete. Large and fast.

 

I've already heard Sox people suggest that he is the best defensive CF in the Sox system right now.

 

And it appears he already has good plate discipline.

 

If he hits for a decent average in the minors he will move through the system very quickly.

Edited November 14, 2008 by scenario

[Dick Allen]

All I know is Nick Swisher had an OBP 16 points lower than Luis Terrero had in 2007. He also had an OPS only 19 points higher. Terrero was released. Swisher was owed at least $22 million. No one complained when Terrero was jettisoned. Swisher is awful. I don't blame him for being upset when he didn't play. I would think guys that didn't care if they played or not would be a bigger problem. He had no position. Betimet may be able to help out a little bit. Maybe one of the pitchers shocks the world and develops into something useful. The money is the big part. It will be used for something else. KW cut his losses.