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Gavin Floyd for Brian Roberts discussed

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Well it would be great to get Roberts.. it answers the leadoff question and who would start at 2b... only problem is you now have an even bigger hole at SP. Don't think it would be worth it at this point unless KW has something else worked out for another starter or 2.

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Orioles MLB website. (must be legit)

 

I love Brian Roberts. He makes our lineup that much stronger. But damn am i worried about our starting pitching if this deal goes down... i hope KW has 1 or 2 moves left in him to add depth to our rotation.

Edited by GreatScott82

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The rotation would be a shamble, I do not know about this deal!

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QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 06:46 AM)
Orioles MLB website. (must be legit)

 

I love Brian Roberts. He makes our lineup that much stronger. But damn am i worried about our starting pitching if this deal goes down... i hope KW has 1 or 2 moves left in him to add depth to our rotation.

 

 

But why would any team offer KW pitching (except for an exorbidant price?) unless we'd already had these other deals in place and they were waiting on a Roberts deal (conditional)...like the Bailey/Dye swap? KW can't trade Roberts and then be at the mercy of every GM in the league, he's too smart for that.

 

I still prefer a discounted Orlando Hudson to giving up Floyd for Roberts. We can control Hudson's price for 2-3 years, and perhaps he goes to CF as a band aid for that problem.

 

http://masnsports.com/index_blog_roch.html (Getz/Floyd for Roberts is the projected deal)

 

Getting more interesting...apparently the Orioles are really interested in and high on Chris Getz, even going back to his Michigan days. Reading this about Getz, I don't know why, it almost makes me not want to give him up....we tend to undervalue some of our own players and overvalue players on other teams. Of course, the opposite/reverse is true for many Sox fans as well.

 

 

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:58 AM)
But why would any team offer KW pitching (except for an exorbidant price?) unless we'd already had these other deals in place and they were waiting on a Roberts deal (conditional)...like the Bailey/Dye swap? KW can't trade Roberts and then be at the mercy of every GM in the league, he's too smart for that.

 

I still prefer a discounted Orlando Hudson to giving up Floyd for Roberts. We can control Hudson's price for 2-3 years, and perhaps he goes to CF as a band aid for that problem.

 

http://masnsports.com/index_blog_roch.html (Getz/Floyd for Roberts is the projected deal)

 

Getting more interesting...apparently the Orioles are really interested in and high on Chris Getz, even going back to his Michigan days. Reading this about Getz, I don't know why, it almost makes me not want to give him up....we tend to undervalue some of our own players and overvalue players on other teams. Of course, the opposite/reverse is true for many Sox fans as well.

The only thing I can think of is acquiring Roberts for Getz and Floyd, and I still think the report that KW would even consider it is bunk, especially if Roberts were a one year rental, would probably make Ramirez a future CF. It probably would mean Beckham would remain a SS, and he has said the White Sox want him to continue to play SS in the minors.

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I could see the Sox adding Lillibridge [less likely as he's more versatile] or Getz to a deal, with the O's adding say a AA or AAA SP. You have to factor in that the sox will get two draft picks, even if Roberts leaves after this season, as he'll definitely be offered arb. with his low 2009 salary. Garret Olson is an arm that could be penciled into the rotation. He hasn't had success in the bigs but he's dominated in the minors.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/O/Garrett-Olson.shtml

 

Here's an excerpt from Baseball America's 2006 Prospect Handbook: "He pitched in the low 90's more consistently and also showed a power curveball tha runs away from LH's. All of his pitches have so much life that it's hard for hitters to square the ball".

 

Dealing Floyd, another parallel would seem to be the Garza-Delmon Young deal. You'd think the sox could get a young, semi proven position player locked up for a few years, in return for Floyd, that might be better than a Roberts deal. Granted, Roberts would probably help the sox more in 2009, than another acquisition.

Edited by beck72

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Well, the problem is not just acquiring a young player, it's acquiring one with the proper mindset for leading off...high OBP, patience, at least 15-25 stolen base ability (at a minimum).

 

There just aren't more than a couple of those players available, which is why Hudson and Roberts especially are very attractive. The Taveras deal was even more evidence of that, in that a team that couldn't afford Jermaine Dye for one season (supposedly) spent half that money on a very marginal leadoff hitter who has at best a 50/50 chance of working out for them.

 

The funny thing is that the Twins are already shopping D. Young (or at least looking to see what's available in return) one year later. With the Mets and Yankees set with Cano and Castillo (sort of) for now, there's not a big market for Hudson at the current time, which would work to our advantage...or at least COULD work to our advantage.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 07:46 AM)
The only thing I can think of is acquiring Roberts for Getz and Floyd, and I still think the report that KW would even consider it is bunk, especially if Roberts were a one year rental, would probably make Ramirez a future CF. It probably would mean Beckham would remain a SS, and he has said the White Sox want him to continue to play SS in the minors.

 

 

I still think the best combination of those three players' talents would be Beckham at 2B, Ramirez at SS and Lillibridge in CF. I didn't see Lillibridge play at the Univ. of Washington, but we know he has at least 2-3 years of experience at the position. On the other hand, I think (from limited feedback, granted) that Ramirez' third best position might very well be CF. I mean, envisioning Ramirez out there isn't quite as much of a stretch as Dye at 1B or Viciedo at SS (really a big stretch) or Fields at 2B, but I don't think he's as natural and instinctive at that position, his arm is wasted a little from not using it in the middle infield...and he's not as involved in the game at that position, not to mention that his game offensively is more of a plus at SS/2B than in CF. Of course, you could say the same for Lillibridge as well, but it's not quite as risky to change his position as it would be to move Ramirez. Then again, if they want to retain the highest value/s to other teams, they would all remain at SS (Lillibridge/Ramirez/Beckham) but that's simply not possible. I do think that unless he wins a starting position, Lillibridge will be starting for Charlotte at SS with Beckham in the Carolina League or Birmingham starting at short.

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I think this guy is full of it, it makes no sense. If we wanted Roberts and to sign him to an extension, we would just sign Hudson for a lesser price and not have to give up Floyd. But we also are in a payroll crunch, so adding a $10+ million player at second base would be fiscally irresponsible. If that money were available, spend it on pitching not a second baseman, especially because we plenty of ML ready options and prospects.

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Interesting rumor if true... but I doubt it has much merit.

 

Sounds like an Orioles reporter making s*** up because things were slow.

 

What better way to get his fan-base excited than to drum up a new Brian Roberts rumor? Especially one that would bring back young pitching. And the fact that Floyd is from the area even draws more Maryland/DC area reader attention.

 

Trade a popular star with one year left on a contract for a young rising-star pitcher with ties to the area. Sounds like a perfect formula for a rumor to get Orioles fans chirping, doesn't it?

 

Color me skeptical.

Edited by scenario

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QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 01:13 AM)
I like the idea of selling high on Gavin, but we are already short on starting pitching.

 

 

Pitching is a premium and we say we are selling "high" when getting Roberts? Mistake!

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I wouldn't mind this trade except, as others have posted, I am pretty worried about having two gaping holes in the rotation right now, I just don't see how adding a 3rd does anything

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This is from the original source of the rumor -

http://masnsports.com/2009/01/revisiting-robertsfloyd.html

 

I don't mean to interrupt your preparations for the big Buffalo-Connecticut bowl game today - bonus points if you knew it was the International Bowl - but I wanted to revisit last night's entry about Brian Roberts and Gavin Floyd, now that I've sifted through all the comments.

 

Again, I'm only saying that the two sides have talked about the two players. The Orioles apparently brought up Floyd's name, and it's been under discussion. That's it.

 

Fans in Chicago who are railing about the absurdity of the White Sox giving up a young 17-game winner need to be reminded that the kid was 8-10 in parts of four seasons before hitting it big last season. He's not in Jake Peavy's class yet. He might never get there. The jury's still out.

 

And yes, the White Sox would be punching another hole in their rotation, which is why they might pursue a free agent or require a pitcher in return for Floyd, whether it's from the Orioles in an expanded deal or a third team. It's only Jan. 3. Opening Day rosters don't have to be set for a few more months.

 

Also, it figures that the White Sox would want Roberts to sign an extension, which would eliminate the argument over him being a one-year rental. Unfortunately, I left out that important point while rushing to file my entry before the Hot Stove Show on MASN (I heard Jim Hunter say "10 seconds" as I was reaching for the send button).

 

As a friend and former co-worker pointed out last night during a text exchange, Olson-for-Pie didn't happen, but that doesn't mean the trade talks weren't real. Roberts-for-Floyd might fade away, too, but they've been linked in the same discussions this winter.

 

As always, stay tuned.

Edited by Jimmywins1

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:33 PM)
Pitching would remain the problem that it currently is. Either way we need to acquire SP and count on youngsters steppin up

 

Sorry Princess, but the pitching situation would be much worse w/o Gavin. No way we make this trade unless other pitching comes from the O's or elsewhere in another deal.

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QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 10:36 AM)
This is from the original source of the rumor -

http://masnsports.com/2009/01/revisiting-robertsfloyd.html

Sounds like a rumor to drive up site traffic. He clearly is not aware of the value of Floyd, and also doesnt appear to have watched him pitch much. He checked out his stats on Yahoo.com and decided that it might make sense.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 01:43 PM)
Sounds like a rumor to drive up site traffic. He clearly is not aware of the value of Floyd, and also doesnt appear to have watched him pitch much. He checked out his stats on Yahoo.com and decided that it might make sense.

He's not a hack like Cowley. On Jan 26 his blog entry included this:

 

If Erik Bedard is still listed on the Orioles’ 40-man roster beyond next week, I’ll be very surprised. My crystal ball keeps showing Adam Jones, George Sherrill and Chris Tillman reporting to Fort Lauderdale Stadium. They have another guy with them, but his image is fuzzy.

 

He was off a bit as Bedard was traded Feb 9, but all 3 of the guys he mentioned from Seattle were part of the deal.

 

 

I still don't see how KW finds this move attractive unless he's pretty sure Floyd is a house of cards.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:22 PM)
He's not a hack like Cowley. On Jan 26 his blog entry included this:

 

If Erik Bedard is still listed on the Orioles’ 40-man roster beyond next week, I’ll be very surprised. My crystal ball keeps showing Adam Jones, George Sherrill and Chris Tillman reporting to Fort Lauderdale Stadium. They have another guy with them, but his image is fuzzy.

 

He was off a bit as Bedard was traded Feb 9, but all 3 of the guys he mentioned from Seattle were part of the deal.

 

Doesn't count.

 

I think there were people in the third world without electricity and running water who knew who the players were coming back in the Bedard trade by the time he wrote that.

 

:P

 

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 01:13 PM)
Sorry Princess, but the pitching situation would be much worse w/o Gavin. No way we make this trade unless other pitching comes from the O's or elsewhere in another deal.

 

It would be worse, but I guess we disagree on how replaceable Floyd's talents are.

 

As currently comprised, we have neither lineup nor rotation that's ready for a World Series win.

 

Make this move, and your lineup has solidified greatly. And you then have to replace a groundball pitcher with a 1.26 WHIP. So I disagree that we need something else coming back from Baltimore, because that something else can be found elsewhere.

 

 

 

My point is we're brought closer with this move than without it.

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Posting this from my cell phone while driving from Chicago to Denver down highway 80 so I apologize if this has been mentioned but Bruce Lhevine says his White Sox sources say this rumor is a bunch of crap.

 

Lhevine closed his show at 11am saying this with utter certainty. I know Lhevine is not always right on trade stuff but he sounded like a person who had talked to a very well placed source.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 05:18 PM)
Floyd had his 2 worst months ERA wise in August and September. He could have been tiring or maybe they were catching up to what he was doing. Danks was awful the second half of 2007 so it could be the former. I'm not sold on Floyd and I like Roberts. If he were a White Sox in 2008 and Ramirez played CF, this team would have been one of the most exciting White Sox teams ever. But even with all that, Floyd for Roberts makes zero sense for the White Sox. They don't have the major league ready pitching depth to give up another 200 innings.

The Sox already have two question-marks pencilled into the rotation and moving Floyd would make it a third and it would take a s***load of luck for Marquez/Richard/Poreda (who I'm assuming would be the 3-4-5) to combine for an ERA under 5.5 which means no matter how good the offense would be we'd still be an awful club. Floyd is young, cheap and has a pretty effortless delivery and the potential to be a pretty good #2/#3 pitcher so there is no way I move him for a 30 year old 2B who is going to be a FA at the end of the year. The move also makes zero sense given KW's plan to rebuild (well more like re-tool and get younger). It does fit in with the speed approach though.

 

Plus if your going to bring in Roberts and his salary the Sox would have just been better off going after Hudson or Furcal.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 06:50 PM)
Sure, if he brings Mora with him... The one thing about this rumor is I wonder if Kenny could be thinking about selling high ala Esteban Loiaza?

One big difference, Kenny wasn't truly selling high on Loaiza (if he was he would have dealt him after his 20 win season and not after he was already on the downside). He still was able to get a raw talent in Contreras but we were also talking about a deal involving two guys of similar ages. Floyd is younger and far cheaper. If the Sox are going to get Roberts it better be involving Poreda/Fields and not Floyd.

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There is obviously some smoke to this deal but I don't buy that the O's would actually demand more. Than again they've asked the world for Roberts and I've never quite grasped why but none of this makes sense. The Sox are bumping the payroll limits yet they are going to take on salary and extend Roberts (as the rumor indicates the Sox would want to extend Brian) and than the club would open up a hole in the rotation which couldn't be replaced in house (unless you really want to f***ing suck) so your going to have to add more payroll (or trade Dye or Paulie for prospects and open up offensive holes which would need to be addressed with more payroll).

 

Bottom line this s*** doesn't pass the smell test.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:16 PM)
Plus if your going to bring in Roberts and his salary the Sox would have just been better off going after Hudson or Furcal.

 

Absolutely!!

 

Is the difference between Hudson and Roberts worth giving up a 25 year old #2 or #3 starting pitcher to get Roberts? For ONE YEAR before he hits the free agent market???

 

I like Brian Roberts... but given the choice, bringing in Hudson instead seems like a no-brainer.

 

And frankly... I'm not even sure we NEED to bring in another 2B. Chris Getz is NOT going to make or break our season.

 

The biggest risk we have next year in sucking is if our young starting pitching doesn't deliver. No way should we be trading the little pitching we have.

Edited by scenario

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I don't think Gavin will be the top-of-the-rotation SP like many assume he will be. Not the be-all-end-all, but sabermetrics tell us Gavin was one of the luckier SP in baseball last season. I think we'll see him up in the 4.30-4.40 ERA range, personally, which is fine. With all this said, I am indifferent on this deal. While I think Floyd is certainly replaceable, I just can't subtract another SP from this team currently. Although, Roberts would have a bigger impact on this team than Floyd IF KW could replace Floyd. Uncharacteristically, there seems to be a lot of pitching available through trade or free agency. It all depends on how much there really is available to spend.

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