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ST Game 1: White Sox vs. Angels


Steve9347
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QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 05:37 PM)
Was was Brad Salmon pitching in this game? I thought he was just a BP pitcher or something?

 

Haha. That's all he might be anymore. Spring is officially here. Sox scrubs, NRI and lower level minor leaguers get rocked. That's when you know spring is back.

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QUOTE (jphat007 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 04:40 PM)
Haha. That's all he might be anymore. Spring is officially here. Sox scrubs, NRI and lower level minor leaguers get rocked. That's when you know spring is back.

 

lol, hey didn't we have a losing Cactus League record in 2005? Maybe everything is not all doom and gloom afterall. :lol:

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QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 10:34 PM)
then why would they say hes the future c? we need someone after aj

 

They say that because he has a ton more value as a catcher with 30 homer power than as a first baseman with 30 homer power. Teams and general managers are more likely to try and sell prospects and acquisitions like Flowers to the fan base and public at large to build good feelings about the team and build the inferred value of the farm system.

 

Flowers is a good hitter but he'd be an awful full time starting major league catcher. The Braves knew this. I think so did Kenny. He's a first baseman.

 

They're lying about Jeff Marquez too.

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QUOTE (R.J. @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 04:59 PM)
They say that because he has a ton more value as a catcher with 30 homer power than as a first baseman with 30 homer power. Teams and general managers are more likely to try and sell prospects and acquisitions like Flowers to the fan base and public at large to build good feelings about the team and build the inferred value of the farm system.

 

Flowers is a good hitter but he'd be an awful full time starting major league catcher. The Braves knew this. I think so did Kenny. He's a first baseman.

 

They're lying about Jeff Marquez too.

 

Lets let him play some games behind the plate over the year with instruction before we write him off.

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 06:03 PM)
Lets let him play some games behind the plate over the year with instruction before we write him off.

Agreed, he's played what, one season behind the plate? He's gonna struggle mightily for awhile, and hopefully within 2 years hes good enough to be our starting catcher.

 

Personally, I am fine with him as long as he learns to block bad pitches, can throw out atleast what AJ is, and most importantly calls a great game. That last part is most important to me (not saying the other stuff doesnt matter).

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QUOTE (R.J. @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 04:59 PM)
They say that because he has a ton more value as a catcher with 30 homer power than as a first baseman with 30 homer power. Teams and general managers are more likely to try and sell prospects and acquisitions like Flowers to the fan base and public at large to build good feelings about the team and build the inferred value of the farm system.

 

Flowers is a good hitter but he'd be an awful full time starting major league catcher. The Braves knew this. I think so did Kenny. He's a first baseman.

 

They're lying about Jeff Marquez too.

The guy hasnt played above A ball and just started playing catcher. Basically you are jumping the gun, the bullet, the manufacturer of said gun and the very idea of the gun ever being invented.

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QUOTE (letsgoarow @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 02:24 PM)
THIS.TEAM.IS.DEAD

 

 

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 02:39 PM)
Barring Richard that was a complete and utter crapfest

 

 

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 02:43 PM)
lol, hey didn't we have a losing Cactus League record in 2005? Maybe everything is not all doom and gloom afterall. :lol:

 

 

I wouldn't get too worked up about spring training results. When it's football season I'm a Raiders fan and a couple seasons ago we had a new coach, Art Shell. He came in and the team went 4-0 in preseason, everyone on the board was saying playoffs, division title, etc... and I think most people know how that turned out. These games are just practice and we shouldn't be too concerned with the outcomes. They are chances for guys to work on new pitches, mechanics and so on against live professional talent.

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I'm not basing this on the fact he had two hits today...I've had this feeling for the entire offseason...but I honestly think Jason Nix is going to be a HUGE factor at 2B this spring. He'll make for some tough decisions come the end of March when it's all said and done IMO. Wouldn't be surprised if he emerged as the starter to tell you the truth. He's kind of been the "forgotten guy".

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Let's say the average MLB catcher gives you .250-.260, 12-15 homers and 60-65 RBI's.

 

If Flowers could double the home run numbers and put up 80-100 RBI's on a consistent basis, that's still a huge asset. As mentioned, as long as he can call a good game and has a good repoire with the pitching staff, then he's a huge asset...just like a Mike Piazza. Very few teams besides the Twins get good offensive numbers from that position.

 

It's just the first game though. Not getting over and blocking pitches with your body/chest instead of trying to backhand them is a habit that needs to be taught and reinforced until it becomes natural...just like getting down on one knee to block a grounder for an infielder or running into the ball instead of being caught flat-footed or backing up on a flyball when there's a runner on base for an outfielder. Just comes down to good minor league coaching/teaching/instruction.

 

Ozzie has already annointed Flowers as the starter if something were to happen to AJ. We all know Stewart, Lucy, Armstrong and Corky Miller aren't the long-term solution there.

 

I know someone else was already saying Flowers and Marquez were overhyped. Well, look at the Cubs. Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Corey Patterson, Bobby Hill, Angel Guzman, Rich Hill, Gary Scott, Kevin Orie, Mark Prior (well, that's a different case), Felix Pie, Brooks Kieschnick, Kyle Lohse, Sisco, Matt Murton, Brant Brown, every team has prospects that stumble and don't become what they're supposed to be.

Edited by caulfield12
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 26, 2009 -> 05:43 AM)
I know someone else was already saying Flowers and Marquez were overhyped. Well, look at the Cubs. Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Corey Patterson, Bobby Hill, Angel Guzman, Rich Hill, Gary Scott, Kevin Orie, Mark Prior (well, that's a different case), Felix Pie, Brooks Kieschnick, Kyle Lohse, Sisco, Matt Murton, Brant Brown, every team has prospects that stumble and don't become what they're supposed to be.

 

Every team is going to tell you that their prospects are future stars, and that they believe in them, and that they're going to be wonderful. Not the Cubs. Not the Sox. Everyone.

 

The thing is, they don't always believe that. They can't. They're not dumb - they have eyes like you and me. They can evaluate talent. But it's valuable to go to the papers and say "this kid is going to be a starter." It's a poker face. Kenny Williams once called Joe Borchard "untouchable" after everyone else in the world knew what he was: a failed prospect.

 

Nobody believes Flowers will stick at catcher - or OK, Flowers can stick at catcher, you can play him there, but you're going to have a terrible defensive catcher. That's all I'm saying. It's possible the Sox just don't think having a poor defensive catcher will hurt them in the standings.

 

But the kid is a first baseman. This isn't some high schooler who you're trying out at a position. He's 23 years old - that's young but not young enough. He doesn't have a catcher's body. He doesn't have the instincts. All the scouting reports on him say he's just not going to stick there. It happens to a ton of guys like him - catcher is the most difficult position on the field.

 

So again, this isn't based on today. It's just looking at what is going to become a decision for us in the future. You have a bad defensive catcher - can his bat play at first base, where he won't hurt you on defense? I appreciate your optimism here guys but let's call a spade a spade on this. At some point you just bite the bullet.

 

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