Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
southsider2k5

Is Sammy a Hall of Famer???

Sammy in or out of the Hall?  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you vote Sammy Sosa into the Hall of Fame if you had a vote?

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      51


Recommended Posts

Career marks of .273 average, 2408 hits, 370 doubles, 609 homers, 1667 RBI, .534 SLG, .344 OBP, .878 OPS. 3 seasons of 60+ homers, the only man ever to do that, including 243 homers in a 4 year span. He has never been formally accused of steroids with any evidence, though the accusations have haunted him for years.

 

Is that enough to get him in, or is the cloud of suspicion too great over Sosa to vote him into the Hall of Fame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On Cub message board I think the majority would say no cause he fell out of favor with them as time passed. On this board we dont even need a poll to know what the results are. Except for the usual suspects that are going to say yes just because they like to be the minority and argue with people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its so hard for me to say, but I would lean towards no. During the time that it was percieved that he was not on the juice, he seemed pretty overmatched in the majors(with the Sox, Orioles, and Texas), he had some moments here and there, but nothing groundbreaking. During the time he was (supposedly) on the juice, he was a terror.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 09:27 AM)
On Cub message board I think the majority would say no cause he fell out of favor with them as time passed. On this board we dont even need a poll to know what the results are. Except for the usual suspects that are going to say yes just because they like to be the minority and argue with people.

I guess I'm in the minority then, because on June 5th, 2009, Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Asdie from being at the steroid hearings on Capitol Hill, he was never linked to the juice. Was he on it? Probably, but untill it has an actual link to him, there really isn't anything to go off of.

 

The numbers he put up during his peak were simply incredible.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up the cork as a reason to keep him out of the hall, I don't see how that is any different than Gaylord Perry being in the HOF after doctoring the baseball every start with his spitball...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 10:01 AM)
I guess I'm in the minority then, because on June 5th, 2009, Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Asdie from being at the steroid hearings on Capitol Hill, he was never linked to the juice. Was he on it? Probably, but untill it has an actual link to him, there really isn't anything to go off of.

 

The numbers he put up during his peak were simply incredible.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up the cork as a reason to keep him out of the hall, I don't see how that is any different than Gaylord Perry being in the HOF after doctoring the baseball every start with his spitball...

 

 

That cash exchange deal in the airport(Toronto?) was a pretty big black eye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless there is something that nails him for steroid use, he has to be a first ballot guy. He won't be, and will probably have to wait a while, but you supposedly are innocent until proven guilty in this country, although if you played in the current era, you are quilty until proven innocent. The HOF is loaded with guys who used PED's. Maybe not steroids but other things.

Edited by Dick Allen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 10:04 AM)
That cash exchange deal in the airport(Toronto?) was a pretty big black eye

The Manny Alexander stuff was obviously fishy, but I'm not sure it's enough to keep him out of the hall....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is going to be a lot of "Is this guy a HOFer" talk in the next 15-20 years. Sammy is just the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 10:10 AM)
I think there is going to be a lot of "Is this guy a HOFer" talk in the next 15-20 years. Sammy is just the start.

It all changed, in my mind, with Alex Rodriguez. Bonds, Sosa and McGwire are grouped together as steroid/HGH users due to their inflated HR seasons. If no one comparable to those players ever again tested positive they'd never get into the HOF. However, with Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez it has changed. I believe those two, since they still conceivably have several years of good production left, will have an opportunity to make amends for their past actions. If either is still productive for their teams (and this will of course be subjective because what's "productive" for Rodriguez and Ramirez, based upon past years, may still be good overall; but not we're accustomed to) it'll give credence to the belief that both would have been a a HOF player regardless.

 

Once either gets in, that'll open the possibility for others. I believe Sosa will ultimately be a HOF, but he'll have to wait awhile.

Edited by Flash Tizzle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 10:08 AM)
Unless there is something that nails him for steroid use, he has to be a first ballot guy. He won't be, and will probably have to wait a while, but you supposedly are innocent until proven guilty in this country, although if you played in the current era, you are quilty until proven innocent. The HOF is loaded with guys who used PED's. Maybe not steroids but other things.

Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:01 AM)
I guess I'm in the minority then, because on June 5th, 2009, Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Asdie from being at the steroid hearings on Capitol Hill, he was never linked to the juice. Was he on it? Probably, but untill it has an actual link to him, there really isn't anything to go off of.

 

The numbers he put up during his peak were simply incredible.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up the cork as a reason to keep him out of the hall, I don't see how that is any different than Gaylord Perry being in the HOF after doctoring the baseball every start with his spitball...

I'm with you Tony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 11:08 AM)
Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

Listen to Hawk and all the old players talk about corking bats. Its been quite common and they all laugh about it. Personally, I think Sosa juiced, but if they are going to hold suspicion against him instead of proof, I find it very sad. Bonds and Palmiero tested positive. McGwire used creatine and probably steroids, but he didn't hit 600 homers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think for a second that he wasnt juicing most of his career. But honestly I could give a s*** if he made it into the Hall. Like you guys said its filled with cheats up and down. And am I the only one that finds Hall of Fame talk extremely uninteresting and boring? With all sports IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 09:08 AM)
Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

 

I don't think that the corked bat incident alone means much, but it tells you that he was willing to go to great lengths to cheat. Add that to his (rather obvious) rapid change in physique in the mid-90's and startling change in numbers in the late '90s, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that he was on the juice.

 

IMO, McGwire and Sosa's chances are about equal. Both had very similar careers (great power, mediocre BA, below-average fielders) and both refused to answer questions about steroids before Congress. If Mark doesn't get in, neither will Sammy. And given how the writers have given McGwire the cold shoulder, I don't like Sosa's chances.

 

Palmiero is dead in the water because he was caught red-handed. Bonds had about 400 HRs, 300 SBs, and 3 MVPs before he began roiding in the late '90s (if you believe what has been written about him), and I'd say that his pre-PED accomplishments get him in.

Edited by WCSox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 09:25 AM)
McGwire used creatine and probably steroids, but he didn't hit 600 homers.

 

583 is pretty close to 600, and he also had a higher career OBP and OPS. I'd say that they were roughly equal as hitters.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 10:32 AM)
You guys are fooling yourselves if you think for a second that he wasnt juicing most of his career. But honestly I could give a s*** if he made it into the Hall. Like you guys said its filled with cheats up and down. And am I the only one that finds Hall of Fame talk extremely uninteresting and boring? With all sports IMO.

Halls of Fame = yawn.

The only good thing they offer is the chance to talk about old players, but with all the rumors, accusations, etc., even that's becoming boring.

I find myself becoming less and less interested in any part of sports outside of the actual games.

Stats, records, accolades, none of it means much to me now.....other than message boards, of course.... :lolhitting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ranked hte most obvious beneficiaries of steroids in the steroid era you would probably go:

 

1. Bonds

2. McGuire

3. Sosa

 

 

Thats what will keep him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 01:07 PM)
If you ranked hte most obvious beneficiaries of steroids in the steroid era you would probably go:

 

1. Bonds

2. McGuire

3. Sosa

 

 

Thats what will keep him out.

 

With that list, the difference is that Bonds was easily a hall of famer before he took the juice. without the juice, sosa is nowhere near a hall-of-fame caliber player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 01:25 PM)
There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

The evidence is right in front of your eyes though regardless of if he was stupid enough to get caught. Sosa juiced and he's one of the most obvious cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 11:25 AM)
There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

 

The "evidence" against McGwire is basically hearsay in Canseco's book. That's enough for me, as I happen to think that Canseco told the truth in that first book, but it's not anything close to objective or definitive. It's not like he failed a drug test or anything. If McGwire doesn't get in, I don't see how Sosa will.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 01:30 PM)
The evidence is right in front of your eyes though regardless of if he was stupid enough to get caught. Sosa juiced and he's one of the most obvious cases.

 

Someone getting bigger isn't evidence, there are ways to bulk up naturally.... And yes, I do think he most likely used roids of some sorts, but if all my proof is he got bigger that most certainly isn't enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 01:33 PM)
The "evidence" against McGwire is basically hearsay in Canseco's book. That's enough for me, as I happen to think that Canseco told the truth in that first book, but it's not anything close to objective or definitive. It's not like he failed a drug test or anything. If McGwire doesn't get in, I don't see how Sosa will.

 

McGwire isnt on trial to go to jail, this is about getting into the HoF, so whether its hearsay or not, its enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×