What would Lexi bring back in trade?

[elrockinMT]

Ramirez isn't going anywhere and we shouldn't be giving up on a very talented player who is in only his second season of any level of play above Cuban baseball.

[elrockinMT]

I think he will be better at SS next year, just from experience.

 

I always think of hawk when people are talking abut Alexei's defensive capabilities.

"In my 50 years in this game, I have never seen a shortstop play that close to the line in this situation. Ozzie and Joey need to help him out."

*Soto grounds to Alexei and into an inning ending double play

 

 

That Hawk is a funny guy

[Balta1701]

Ramirez isn't going anywhere and we shouldn't be giving up on a very talented player who is in only his second season of any level of play above Cuban baseball.

If you deal him, he ought to bring back a fortune. He's a guy who's a 2nd year player, who has a good 5 years before he's a FA, who can legitimately hit .300+ and hit 20 HR's a year from a middle infield position with very good speed. Defensive/mental woes aside, that's a monster of a player in terms of trade value. You want to deal him, you wait until someone offers you a top of the rotation starter.

[iamshack]

I think he will be better at SS next year, just from experience.

 

I always think of hawk when people are talking abut Alexei's defensive capabilities.

"In my 50 years in this game, I have never seen a shortstop play that close to the line in this situation. Ozzie and Joey need to help him out."

*Soto grounds to Alexei and into an inning ending double play

 

What about the other 12 times he could barely get to the bag at second because he was playing so deep in the hole?

[son of a rude]

What about the other 12 times he could barely get to the bag at second because he was playing so deep in the hole?

 

Soto was in a slump and was a dead pull hitter at the time. Whether Ozzie knew this and had him play there on purpose or not, he was in the right spot.

[iamshack]

Soto was in a slump and was a dead pull hitter at the time. Whether Ozzie knew this and had him play there on purpose or not, he was in the right spot.

 

That was certainly the case, as I remember exactly which play you are referring to. And perhaps he was in the correct position THAT time, however, there were numerous other instances where Stone and Hawk both commented on his defensive positioning, and it did, in fact, come back to hurt us in other instances where Alexei could not turn a double play because he was late getting to the bag.

[Dick Allen]

KW's comments about Anorexei were interesting yesterday. He basically has given him a pass, saying he hadn't played the position for a while before this season. Coming in, he was talking about how the guy was GG calibur, and he has shown, in flashes, that he is, but he hasn't kept his head in the game for long stretches, and his baseball acumen, which seemed pretty high last season, seems below average for a SS.

[son of a rude]

KW's comments about Anorexei were interesting yesterday. He basically has given him a pass, saying he hadn't played the position for a while before this season. Coming in, he was talking about how the guy was GG calibur, and he has shown, in flashes, that he is, but he hasn't kept his head in the game for long stretches, and his baseball acumen, which seemed pretty high last season, seems below average for a SS.

He has the speed, range, and ability to be a GG type SS. Until he gets his head out of his ass and stops making bonehead plays, he will be the same old Perplexei Ramirez.

Edited August 12, 2009 by son of a rude

[Friend of Nordhagen]

That was certainly the case, as I remember exactly which play you are referring to. And perhaps he was in the correct position THAT time, however, there were numerous other instances where Stone and Hawk both commented on his defensive positioning, and it did, in fact, come back to hurt us in other instances where Alexei could not turn a double play because he was late getting to the bag.

 

My theory on this, and I've mentioned it here before, is that Alexei doesn't move well to his right. If you recall, he had limited range toward 2nd base last year, with very good range toward 1st. Well, this year, that lack of range to the right means that he can't get to the 3B-SS hole. So he cheats. And he's gotten burned by it, repeatedly, by not being able to cover 2nd to turn the double play and by letting grounders go into center that really should be outs.

 

I don't think he's a good defender. And that lack of range isn't really going to get better. The only question is whether his instincts improve on how to position himself -- that, and the ability to make routine throws, which he's struggled with from time to time.

[VAfan]

I want to see some stats on Lexi's defense at SS before I could conclude he's not a plus player at that position. Who's got em?

 

I don't get to see as many games -- only WGN -- but to my eyes Ramirez has more range than any other option (we'd have to guess as to Beckham's range), and probably a stronger arm. He just seems to have some mental lapses, which he ought to tighten up over time.

 

However, if Beckham was essentially as good at SS, I could see moving Ramirez back to 2B and Beckham to SS, if we had a power hitting 3B to plug in. Why do I like that? Because it would leave Getz out. Getz seems the weakest IF by a pretty good margin.

[VAfan]

I found fangraphs, which posts UZR fielding numbers. Here's Alexei's value.

 

Season Team Batting Fielding Replacement Positional RAR WAR Dollars Salary

Total * - - - -2.6 -8.9 30.9 7.0 26.5 2.6 $11.9 $1.1

2008 White Sox 0.8 -10.6 17.0 2.4 9.6 1.0 $4.3 $1.1

2009 White Sox -3.4 1.7 13.9 4.7 16.9 1.7 $7.6

 

I know it's a little hard to read. The short of it is he's a plus fielder at SS, but was a negative fielder at 2B. If that's true, then when we get a power hitting 3B, Beckham should probably move to 2B with Ramirez staying at SS. I certainly wouldn't trade him at this point. His upside is still pretty large.

[suicidesqueeze]

Ramirez isn't going anywhere and we shouldn't be giving up on a very talented player who is in only his second season of any level of play above Cuban baseball.

 

 

Read the original post; nobody is talking about giving up on Lexi. My point is that he's a very valuable trading chip for multiple reasons and you never know what they might be able to get for him. It'd be more foolish IMO to not see what he would potentially bring. It's not a matter of NEEDING to move him.

 

Linebrink, now that's a guy we NEED to move (but pretty much can't).

[suicidesqueeze]

If you deal him, he ought to bring back a fortune. He's a guy who's a 2nd year player, who has a good 5 years before he's a FA, who can legitimately hit .300+ and hit 20 HR's a year from a middle infield position with very good speed. Defensive/mental woes aside, that's a monster of a player in terms of trade value. You want to deal him, you wait until someone offers you a top of the rotation starter.

 

 

Balta gets it

[Requiem Schmuquiem]

Ok, I was a big fan of Lexi last season, no surprise there as we most of us were. But he is a minus defensive player at shortstop, supposedly his natural position. Beckham, who never played 3rd before this year, to me has shown more improvement there since early June than Alexei has displayed at ss all season.

 

I also am wondering if Lexi is closer to reaching his ceiling as a player than we might want to realize. I really don't see him hitting for more than around a .290 average, 20-25 hr's and 80-90 rbi's in the future; all nice numbers, but he did that last year. Beckham, on the other hand, I believe will eclipse those numbers and continually get better along the way at a higher trajectory than Lexi.

 

So...my thought is, would it behoove the Sox to explore the option of trading Lexi for a 5th starter/3rd baseman in the off-season? Then move Beckham to ss (his natural position), keep Getz at 2nd base (good defense/nice speed on the basepaths, can handle the bat better), and get a proven 3rd baseman or starting pitcher (whichever we don't get in any potential trade involving Lexi)?

 

I like Lexi, don't get me wrong...but he has been a drag on the defense at ss, shown next to no discipline at the plate, and IMO does not hustle enough.

 

Thoughts?

 

There is no need to shop him whatsoever. His struggles at SS have been wildly overstated (just as Uribe and Cabrera were overrated with the glove). He needs to bulk up as Soriano did earlier in career, and continue to gradually improve walk rate.

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Read the original post; nobody is talking about giving up on Lexi. My point is that he's a very valuable trading chip for multiple reasons and you never know what they might be able to get for him. It'd be more foolish IMO to not see what he would potentially bring. It's not a matter of NEEDING to move him.

 

Linebrink, now that's a guy we NEED to move (but pretty much can't).

right, but if he is so valuable to other teams, why would we remove that value from ours? we NEED a SS, and we have a good one that can hit. I wouldnt give that up.

[Balta1701]

right, but if he is so valuable to other teams, why would we remove that value from ours? we NEED a SS, and we have a good one that can hit. I wouldnt give that up.

Because we may have more than 1 of those, given Beckham's position in the lineup.

[BigSqwert]

He needs to bulk up as Soriano did earlier in career, and continue to gradually improve walk rate.

Soriano had a little help with that.

Edited August 12, 2009 by BigSqwert

[RockRaines]

Because we may have more than 1 of those, given Beckham's position in the lineup.

I personally as well as many scouts dont see Becks as a SS. I can tell by his range at 3B that he wouldnt be better than Alexei at SS. He can be plus at 3B or 2B, or avg to below at SS.

[Requiem Schmuquiem]

Soriano had a little help with that.

 

hell Soriano of this year, I'll settle for. The musculature, not the swinging at 55-foot bouncer part.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I want to know why anyone who has watched Beckham play SS in BIRM or for UGA on an everyday basis thinks he'd be better than Alexei or at least a major league "average" SS defensively?

[Requiem Schmuquiem]

I want to know why anyone who has watched Beckham play SS in BIRM or for UGA on an everyday basis thinks he'd be better than Alexei or at least a major league "average" SS defensively?

 

Because apparently as rumour has it, while in college Beckham was as close to being a real-life Glen the oversexed Commercial Pilot from the Family Guy (complete with that chin) as we'll ever gonna have.

 

Ergo, great SS.