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southsider2k5

Baseball rule interpretation

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OK, here's the situation.

 

Runners on second and third one out. Fly ball to the LF which is caught for the second out. Runner on third tags up properly and runs to home. The runner on second does NOT tag, and is tagged out trying to return to second. The player going home tags home plate before the runner is tagged out for the third out. Does the run count?

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Without looking it up, I would say no. The defense would only have to touch second, and the runner is out. It's not like he was caught in a run down.

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If the runner crosses home plate before the runner at second is called out, then yes the run does count. We just saw a version of this over the weekend when, I believe, Carlos was called out at third after a hit by AJ. Thome was at second but did not cross the plate before Carlos was tagged. So the run did not count.

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run would not count since one runner did not tag up properly...obviously a different story if the runner is trying to advance

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QUOTE (WSoxMatt @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 08:22 AM)
run would not count since one runner did not tag up properly...obviously a different story if the runner is trying to advance

 

^^^^

 

The situation with Quentin was different since he was in a rundown. The play described doesn't involve a rundown.

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QUOTE (Molto @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 08:24 AM)
^^^^

 

The situation with Quentin was different since he was in a rundown. The play described doesn't involve a rundown.

 

Like I said, the runner was tagged out trying to return to second base because he had not properly tagged up. He was not forced out at second on the throw direct to the base. I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

We had this come up last night in softball and the umpire gave the team the run. I argued it was a force out type play, and that the run couldn't have scored until the runner from second became a "legal" base runner. Because he hadn't tagged up properly, the runner from third was moot.

 

Then again this ump also blew a infield fly rule because he said it was too close to the foul territory...

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I think it would matter whether the runner or base was tagged. If the runner was tagged the runs counts, if the base was tagged it shouldn't.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 08:28 AM)
Like I said, the runner was tagged out trying to return to second base because he had not properly tagged up. He was not forced out at second on the throw direct to the base. I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

We had this come up last night in softball and the umpire gave the team the run. I argued it was a force out type play, and that the run couldn't have scored until the runner from second became a "legal" base runner. Because he hadn't tagged up properly, the runner from third was moot.

 

Then again this ump also blew a infield fly rule because he said it was too close to the foul territory...

 

I'm pretty sure the run still shouldn't count because the runner wasn't out trying to advance. I wouldn't be surprised though if the rule was different based on if the runner was tagged or not.

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It's the same as a double-play I believe. The runner was out at second and the run would not count.

 

At least that's my guess.

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This is from official MLB rules:

 

Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner

on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first

baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner from

third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

 

So, by reading this, the run would count.

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The run counts, it's actually happened a few times the past three seasons.

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I always thought the run counted if the runner crossed the plate before the third out was made.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:02 AM)
I always thought the run counted if the runner crossed the plate before the third out was made.

The guideline is about the batter. If the batter gets out as the third out, then it doesn't matter, no runs score. But once the batter is out OR has reached safely, then its all about timing and the ball in play.

 

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:22 AM)
The guideline is about the batter. If the batter gets out as the third out, then it doesn't matter, no runs score. But once the batter is out OR has reached safely, then its all about timing and the ball in play.

 

Right, if he is out trying to stretch a single into a double, then it is about timing.

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As long as we are doing interpretation of rules I have one for you all...

 

My buddy and I were wondering about it during MB perfect game. We figured it'd have ruined the perfecto and made it a no-hitter but it's interesting and perhaps something to be reconsidered in baseball.

 

Buehrle is cruisin lets say. 8 innings 24 up and 24 down. 9th inning rolls around and Sox get a pop up in foul territory, Beckham drops it. Thats an error but no runner obviously got on base. Buehrle continues on and gets the next 3 out.

 

I presume just a no-hitter but I'd also score it a foul ball and cheat for my SP if it was a home game.

 

What do you guys htink?

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QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:32 AM)
As long as we are doing interpretation of rules I have one for you all...

 

My buddy and I were wondering about it during MB perfect game. We figured it'd have ruined the perfecto and made it a no-hitter but it's interesting and perhaps something to be reconsidered in baseball.

 

Buehrle is cruisin lets say. 8 innings 24 up and 24 down. 9th inning rolls around and Sox get a pop up in foul territory, Beckham drops it. Thats an error but no runner obviously got on base. Buehrle continues on and gets the next 3 out.

 

I presume just a no-hitter but I'd also score it a foul ball and cheat for my SP if it was a home game.

 

What do you guys htink?

 

27 up, 27 down and no one reached first. Sounds like a perfect game to me.

 

And by the way, the next time it happens, will be the first.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:38 AM)
27 up, 27 down and no one reached first. Sounds like a perfect game to me.

 

And by the way, the next time it happens, will be the first.

 

Thats what we were lost on. 27 up and 27 down. But we weren't sure how that error would effect things.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:38 AM)
27 up, 27 down and no one reached first. Sounds like a perfect game to me.

 

And by the way, the next time it happens, will be the first.

 

I believe no errors can be made in a perfect game, regardless of whether or not the runner reaches first.

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QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 10:18 AM)
I believe no errors can be made in a perfect game, regardless of whether or not the runner reaches first.

 

And that is where our confusion lies which is why I was saying they should revisit the scenario in the rule books.

 

I understand it was put in to seperate the two but the error didn't allow the man on so it shouldn't be held against the pitcher but I feel like it would be under the current rules.

 

Just something interesting on the topic of rule interpretation that I thought I would ask you all.

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It's a perfect game. I will find the link for you shortly, but this was discussed before and I'm willing to bet my life on it.

 

EDIT: "An error that does not allow a baserunner, such as a misplayed foul ball, does not spoil a perfect game."

Edited by PeavyTime

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QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 10:38 AM)
It's a perfect game. I will find the link for you shortly, but this was discussed before and I'm willing to bet my life on it.

 

EDIT: "An error that does not allow a baserunner, such as a misplayed foul ball, does not spoil a perfect game."

Is that taken from a rule somewhere? Where is that from?

 

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Yeah, the run definitely counts.

 

It's not a force out. Force outs only happen when a runner has to give up his base and is forced to attempt to advance to the next base because the batter has become a batter-runner.

 

There's also such a thing as a 4th out appeal, which could come up in a similar play.

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