caulfield12 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Usually KW has a really good touch with these mid-season adjustments (even Geoff Blum contributed eventually), but I was struggling to think of one that has had more of a detrimental affect (short-term) to our playoff chances when something was expected of him. Peavy, there was uncertainty whether he would even pitch again this season. Griffey was already washed up, but was acquired more for his veteran presence, leadership and steadying presence. I have a pretty strong belief that Rios can get things turned around next season, but Alex has failed consistently in big situations since we've acquired him. Just perplexing. Roberto Alomar? It was pretty clear he wasn't the same player, as his skills went south very quickly, just like Ryne Sandberg at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydude14 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 What did we give up for Rios besides money we hadn't spent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthsideDon48 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Honestly, though, I always saw the Rios acquistion as a move to shore up the team for the 2010 season. So I have no problem putting up with Rios' inconsistency this season because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 10:03 PM) Honestly, though, I always saw the Rios acquistion as a move to shore up the team for the 2010 season. So I have no problem putting up with Rios' inconsistency this season because of that. I won't go that far. Rios has been bad as deserves to be criticized. I certainly ain't "putting up" with it. Not that it matters either way. But this wasn't a quick fix move by KW. Barring injury, Rios should be with us for a while. Still a long ways away before anybody can legitimately determine whether this was a bad move or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 11:03 PM) Honestly, though, I always saw the Rios acquistion as a move to shore up the team for the 2010 season. So I have no problem putting up with Rios' inconsistency this season because of that. Yeah, this season is really a wash. I'll reserve my judgment until about the All-Star break next year. Rios definitely has sucked but I'm not about to get all bent out of shape about it yet. Edited September 12, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Ball Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 23 games in, 5 years left on his contract. Are we really having this thread already? He hasn't been good since the trade, but he isn't this bad, we have 5 and a half seasons worth of data to prove that and since he's only 28 there's no reason to think he's in decline. Maybe he'll never be an .850+ OPS player again but there's no reason to think he won't chip in a few .800+ OPS years with great defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 03:49 AM) Usually KW has a really good touch with these mid-season adjustments (even Geoff Blum contributed eventually), but I was struggling to think of one that has had more of a detrimental affect (short-term) to our playoff chances when something was expected of him. Peavy, there was uncertainty whether he would even pitch again this season. Griffey was already washed up, but was acquired more for his veteran presence, leadership and steadying presence. I have a pretty strong belief that Rios can get things turned around next season, but Alex has failed consistently in big situations since we've acquired him. Just perplexing. Roberto Alomar? It was pretty clear he wasn't the same player, as his skills went south very quickly, just like Ryne Sandberg at 2B. You say that he has had success but then you list all of his failures. Add to those failures... Danny Richar.. Horacio Ramírez, MacDougal (although he was OK when we got him)... Garcia was his best acquisition during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 This isn't specifically about Rios, per se. It's what has been the worst "in-season" (May/June/July/August) move that KW has made, 2001-2009, in terms of the "negative" (up to you to determine) impact on that particular season, on a White Sox team that was contending or close to it? So moves like Adkins/Durham don't count, because we were already out of the race and wanted to play Willie Harris and save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxt @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 11:06 PM) You say that he has had success but then you list all of his failures. Add to those failures... Danny Richar.. Horacio Ramírez, MacDougal (although he was OK when we got him)... Garcia was his best acquisition during the season. MacDougal was a lot better than OK. He was actually one of the best relievers in baseball from the time we acquired him through the rest of that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (chisoxt @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 11:06 PM) You say that he has had success but then you list all of his failures. Add to those failures... Danny Richar.. Horacio Ramírez, MacDougal (although he was OK when we got him)... Garcia was his best acquisition during the season. But the 2004 team wasn't contending (due to injuries) when we took on Contreras and Garcia, either one which could be termed the best KW move for setting up the following season. Those first three trades had little or NO impact on our post-season drive, negligible, at best. MacDougal, as stated above, was very good in his role that particular season, but many other factors undermined that season. What I'm talking about is a move that actually HINDERED our chances of getting to post-season. Pena has been inconsistent, but that hasn't really been as big of a factor as Rios' disappearance, because he's a set-up guy, and he has pitched well at times....Rios has been lost since we acquired him, and looks like he just wants to get this season over with. Edited September 12, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Wow. Rios is here because of 2010 and beyond. If Kenny was more concerned about 2009 than anything else then we probably would have had Tigers-like improvements (Washburn and Huff in the final years of their contracts) rather than assuming over $100M in new contracts or whatever it was we took on. Look at 2009 Rios for defense and that's about it. He was having a s*** year in Toronto which is the only reason we got him in the first place. If he's still performing like this offensively through May or June of 2010, then we can start calling this a bad move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) 23 games in, 5 years left on his contract. Are we really having this thread already? He hasn't been good since the trade, but he isn't this bad, we have 5 and a half seasons worth of data to prove that and since he's only 28 there's no reason to think he's in decline. Maybe he'll never be an .850+ OPS player again but there's no reason to think he won't chip in a few .800+ OPS years with great defense. As I asked when he was acquired, if Rios was a FA after this year would he get a 5 year $60 million contract?. I didn't think so, but a lot of people think he would even get more. Who knows. I do know he's better than he's played, and will be better than all of the junk KW has trotted into CF in the KW era, included, most likely, Aaron Rowand. But considering how often we hear the I can't spend $1 if all I have is $.50,talk, $60 million for Alex Rios is extremely expensive. I know the Sox have money coming off the books, but that is still $60 million that can be spent in other ways. Edited September 12, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 The Sox were 3 games out of first when the claim was made with 2 months to play and a hole in CF. Does anyone REALLY think KW was thinking of next year when he claimed him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 10:58 AM) The Sox were 3 games out of first when the claim was made with 2 months to play and a hole in CF. Does anyone REALLY think KW was thinking of next year when he claimed him? He has a contract for years... He had better of been thinking of the next few years at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Rios most likely would get a very similar contract this off season. He was never a FA, so his contract actually may be below market value. Gary Matthews Jr is being paid about $10mil, because he had one good season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) Rios most likely would get a very similar contract this off season. He was never a FA, so his contract actually may be below market value. Gary Matthews Jr is being paid about $10mil, because he had one good season. Buster Olney polled some GMs a month or so ago and the consensus was he'd be lucky to get half of what he is signed for. Of course, they could be full of it, because when push comes to shove, some incredibly high contracts get signed. The days of GM Jr. type one year wonders getting all that money, although its less than what Rios is owed, is over for a while IMO. Rios has had a couple of solid years, but has slid backwards. Hopefully its not permanent and he can play up to his talent level. He's extremely athletic. Edited September 12, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) He has a contract for years... He had better of been thinking of the next few years at least. His quote was when he acquired Peavy and Rios that the Sox were now ready to compete with the big boys, so while he had to have the future in mind considering the contract, and who knows if he really wanted the contract or wanted to block a team like Detroit, who could have picked him up and waived Magglio, actually saving them some money in the short term, from getting him, he definitely was considering 2009 and Rios hasn't performed anywhere near what KW could have possibly expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) His quote was when he acquired Peavy and Rios that the Sox were now ready to compete with the big boys, so while he had to have the future in mind considering the contract, and who knows if he really wanted the contract or wanted to block a team like Detroit, who could have picked him up and waived Magglio, actually saving them some money in the short term, from getting him, he definitely was considering 2009 and Rios hasn't performed anywhere near what KW could have possibly expected. Do you really believe for a second that anyone in the White Sox management group would come out and say, yeah we suck. This is totally for next year, with something like 50-60 games left in the season and us a couple of games out of first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 You'll never convince me Rios and Peavy were not also for THIS YEAR. We were in the race when we got Rios and EVERYBODY was excited that he'd be something we really needed. And with Peavy if we could make the playoffs, squeak in, our rotation would all be set up. Why would it only be for next year if we were right in the thick of the Central race and would have as good a chance as anybody in the playoffs to win it now?? It was for this year as well. Go back and read all the stories and all the fan comments. People were juiced for now. Our rotation would be unstoppable in a short series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) People need to stop crying about Rios. The man is struggling and needs to make some adjustments. He has proven he can hit. Right now he is the best CF we have and you are stuck with him no matter how much ya piss and moan about it. Plus he isn't even one of the main problems on this team. Edited September 12, 2009 by EvilJester99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) Main problems on team of late (during period we fell out of contention) 1.) Bullpen. 2.) Dye/Rios being automatic outs in lineup. 3.) As hyped as our starting pitching is, still inconsistent. Am I forgetting something more obvious? Edited September 12, 2009 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Main problems on team of late (during period we fell out of contention) 1.) Bullpen. 2.) Dye/Rios being automatic outs in lineup. 3.) As hyped as our starting pitching is, still inconsistent. Am I forgetting something more obvious? Defense... or lack there of would be another big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) Do you really believe for a second that anyone in the White Sox management group would come out and say, yeah we suck. This is totally for next year, with something like 50-60 games left in the season and us a couple of games out of first place? Do you really believe the Sox would take on a $60 million + contract when they are 3 games out with 2 months to play and think its for next year and not this, especially considering their CF situation, and expect Rios to be as horrible as he's been? Its not like the guy is a rookie who needs a few months of seasoning. The waiver claim, at least for this year, blew up in KW's face, and as I stated earlier, I'm not so convinced he really wanted Rios, he may have been blocking him, but that's another thing I do not think he would ever admit. Edited September 12, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Main problems on team of late (during period we fell out of contention) 1.) Bullpen. 2.) Dye/Rios being automatic outs in lineup. 3.) As hyped as our starting pitching is, still inconsistent. Am I forgetting something more obvious? The sad thing is the White Sox lead at least the AL in quality starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) Do you really believe the Sox would take on a $60 million + contract when they are 3 games out with 2 months to play and think its for next year and not this, especially considering their CF situation, and expect Rios to be as horrible as he's been? Its not like the guy is a rookie who needs a few months of seasoning. The waiver claim, at least for this year, blew up in KW's face, and as I stated earlier, I'm not so convinced he really wanted Rios, he may have been blocking him, but that's another thing I do not think he would ever admit. So do you think they were making up wanting Rios in the past? Plus knowing the way the Sox do budgets and contracts, there is no way they put out a waiver claim on a guy with $60 million outstanding unless they wanted him long term. This isn't the Yankees we are talking about. The Sox are about as conservative as they come. Heck this would have rated as the biggest free agent signing in team history if it had been done that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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