Tribune article about team being "underachievers"

[kitekrazy]

Labeling Chicago White Sox underachievers still isn't fair

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-24-...,7170045.column

 

Maybe we set our expectations high because the division is so crappy. That expectation isn't very high when you consider there's no way this team would ever make it and win a World Series.

 

Winning the division would only be something to snub at Cub fans.

[ThunderBolt]

KW’s plan for next season sounds great. If we execute them, we win this division by a wide margin. They seem to fundamentally, clash with Ozzie’s smallball instincts, and I wonder if that situation will come to a head.

[kitekrazy]

They seem to fundamentally, clash with Ozzie’s smallball instincts, and I wonder if that situation will come to a head.

 

How is that?

 

[SoxFan562004]

Labeling Chicago White Sox underachievers still isn't fair

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-24-...,7170045.column

 

Maybe we set our expectations high because the division is so crappy. That expectation isn't very high when you consider there's no way this team would ever make it and win a World Series.

 

Winning the division would only be something to snub at Cub fans.

I think their performance with RISP and runners at 3rd with less than 2 outs the last 2 months shows they underachieved... if they do only slightly better they win at least 5 more games and are in contention right now

[CanOfCorn]

The steroid era is over...home runs aren't as important anymore. Pitching and defense isn't exciting, but it wins.

[striker]

Contrera, Linebrink and Colon combined for 26 losses or just under 1/3. Just by having quality 4/5 starters should help some. But then you have to look at how we sucked with RISP

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The steroid era is over...home runs aren't as important anymore. Pitching and defense isn't exciting, but it wins.

I agree with the bolded parts but not the rest.

 

Home runs as just as important as they always were. Yes, MLB is doing a much better job of getting the roids out but it's not like the new stadiums coming out are getting considerably larger and the mound height keeps getting raised. And it's not like players are getting weaker through better conditioning programs or that scouting reports on pitchers are becoming less reliable.

 

Also, pitching and defense is VERY exciting. A slick defensive play is always more entertaining IMO than a home run, and a 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 type of ballgame always has you closer to the edge of your seat than some slugfest.

[ThunderBolt]

How is that?

KW seems to be stressing OPB and extra-base hits, while Ozzie continues to talk about going in a more small-ball oriented direction.

[wallyburger]

Kenny labeled the team underachievers. He didn't say his expectations of the team he assembled were misguided and inflated. Blame the troops but not the brass. That is oh so typical of Kenny.

[ThunderBolt]

KW got us the players. He had no control on whether they actually performed.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

KW seems to be stressing OPB and extra-base hits, while Ozzie continues to talk about going in a more small-ball oriented direction.

They go hand-in-hand. They both want a balanced ballclub capable of scoring in as many ways as possible. You don't need to have a bunch of slow sluggers to get on base and drive in runs. Beckham and Abreu are types of players that make both of them happy.

[LittleHurt05]

Contrera, Linebrink and Colon combined for 26 losses or just under 1/3. Just by having quality 4/5 starters should help some. But then you have to look at how we sucked with RISP

 

Those 3 guys didnt really underachieve, they are just old and bad. KW took a chance that they would still have something left and be good and it didnt happen, and thats on him.

 

The only players that I think truly underacheived by a large amount this year were Dye after the All-Star Break & Rios for the month or so we have had him. Also, Quentin underacheived from last year, but he has always had a problem with staying hurt, thats why Zona gave him to us. Maybe 08 was a fluke, and this is the real CQ?

 

I'll add Jenks in that too, he definitely should have been better

Edited September 24, 2009 by LittleHurt05

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Kenny labeled the team underachievers. He didn't say his expectations of the team he assembled were misguided and inflated. Blame the troops but not the brass. That is oh so typical of Kenny.

Underachievers this year:

Dye

Rios

Linebrink

Dotel

Jenks

Pena

Quentin

Alexei in the first half

 

I'd say better seasons out of those guys makes us just slightly better, wouldn't you?

 

Besides, there have been several games this year where our pitching has been lights-out and our offense couldn't score off some nobody. Getting shut down by garbage like Adam Eaton is uncalled for. Maybe these things aren't reflected well in the overall numbers of guys like Paulie and AJ who have had good or great years, but when you go back and look at some of these scorecards there are guys who have had good years still not hitting when they needed to.

 

Given how s***ty this division is I'd say Kenny is exactly right. We're underachievers this year. The Tigers will probably take the division with 85-87 wins while the Sox are 7 games below .500. We could have won this thing.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[kitekrazy]

Given how s***ty this division is I'd say Kenny is exactly right. We're underachievers this year. The Tigers will probably take the division with 85-87 wins while the Sox are 7 games below .500. We could have won this thing.

 

I wouldn't be content with that. If they made it to the post season, it would be a joke. I doubt they would win one post season game.

 

[klaus kinski]

KW got us the players. He had no control on whether they actually performed.

 

I like KW but the players he got included Colon Wise Betemit Lillibridge Pena Miller and Castro

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wouldn't be content with that. If they made it to the post season, it would be a joke. I doubt they would win one post season game.

You can't count out a team that would start Peavy, Danks, Freddy, and either Buehrle or Floyd. s***, Dewayne Wise hit a big 3-run homer against the Rays last year and Geoff Blum put us ahead with a bomb in the WS. Anything can happen in the postseason if you have the starting pitching.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I like KW but the players he got included Colon Wise Betemit Lillibridge Pena Miller and Castro

Wise was an admitted f*** up. There was no excuse for having him as the Opening Day starter in CF.

 

Colon was a reclamation project 5th starter that didn't work out. But it was better to do that than bring in a guy on a high one year deal or on a multiyear deal.

 

Betemit was a top-shelf pinch hitter who completely fell off. That wasn't a bad move at all IMO, it just turned out bad.

 

Lillibridge is a very nice option as a bench player. Anyone who can cover SS, 2B, and CF well defensively plus pinch run and only makes the minimum has value. The problem was that Ozzie had to play him regulary due to injuries. Lilli shouldn't have been out there more than once a week. It's not his fault or Ozzie's fault.

 

I hate the Pena trade, but the guy does have talent. I think we gave up too much, but Pena does have a very live fastball that would bring him lots of success if he relied on it more instead of hanging his slider to everyone. There's still hope for Pena.

 

Miller = league minimum backup. Who cares about offense from a backup catcher? I'd rather take the s***ty offense at the minimum and put the extra money saved into other areas of the MLB team or in the farm system. I've got no problems with Corky.

 

Castro = same thing. The pitchers like him and he has some pop from the right side. He's done nothing to really win or lose this division for us.

 

Jermaine Dye's second half alone hurts us more than any of the players on this list. In fact if you take out Colon, Dye's garbage second half hurts us more than all the other players' poor performances combined. And that's just Dye, and the blame doesn't end there.

[Thad Bosley]

KW seems to be stressing OPB and extra-base hits, while Ozzie continues to talk about going in a more small-ball oriented direction.

 

If KW is stressing OPB, then I can't help but think he'll target either Figgins or Abreu this offseason. Both feature excellent OBPs, and either one of them would seeimingly fit a need we currently have.

[JorgeFabregas]

On Pace Bercentage?

[Steve9347]

Pitching and defense isn't exciting

I disagree.

[ThunderBolt]

I like KW but the players he got included Colon Wise Betemit Lillibridge Pena Miller and Castro

On the other hand, Peavy, Rios, Nix, Flowers, and Nunez all have had some use this year, and perhaps moreso, next year.

[longshot7]

I agree with the bolded parts but not the rest.

 

Home runs as just as important as they always were. Yes, MLB is doing a much better job of getting the roids out but it's not like the new stadiums coming out are getting considerably larger and the mound height keeps getting raised. And it's not like players are getting weaker through better conditioning programs or that scouting reports on pitchers are becoming less reliable.

 

Also, pitching and defense is VERY exciting. A slick defensive play is always more entertaining IMO than a home run, and a 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 type of ballgame always has you closer to the edge of your seat than some slugfest.

 

I, for one, miss the steroid era, and the steroids themselves. RIP.

[SoxFan562004]

The steroid era is over...home runs aren't as important anymore. Pitching and defense isn't exciting, but it wins.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/b...Runs/order/true

 

3 out of the top 5 teams are in the playoffs if the season ended and a 4th, Texas was in realistic WC contention into September and the NYY and Phil play in lauching pads, similar to the Cell. 7 of the 8 playoff teams if it ended today are in the top 1/2. Only the Dodgers are below

 

Echoing an earlier thought, yes MLB has done a better job with many PEDs, but there are many that can only be tested by blood. Above and beyond that, the new ballparks mostly favor HRs.

 

Now, obviously the Sox pen and defense has to get better for the team to perform better next year, but HRs are still an important part of the game IMO

Edited September 24, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Jeremy]

I don't really understand the article. Of course the team was legitimately flawed; that's why people expected them to contend to win a weak division and not a strong division or the wild card; that's why people hoped they could pull off 85 wins, not 95 wins.

 

I'm not ready to call the players massive underachievers because I think most people pegged them between 76 and 86 wins and they're on pace to end up on the lower end of that spectrum. I absolutely think they're a disappointment though. Kenny had better not be assembling a $95 million dollar team that's expected to go 77-87. If the author believes that's what happened, I think he should be direct and pointed in his criticism of Kenny.

[beck72]

If I were to label, in order, the biggest underachievers for the 2009 Sox, as far has hurting the sox chances for winning the Central, I'd go with:

1. Quentin. Even if he was hurt, his lost 2009 really hurt the Sox. Now, can he come back strong in 2010, coming near his 2008 season, I think so.

2. The sox defense. I don't know how many unearned runs the sox had, but they gave away game after game.

3. Dye, his 2nd half. His missed RBI chances with him hitting under .200, are a key reason the sox were under .500 in the 2nd half.

4. Poor 4th and 5th starters for the first 2/3 of the season. The sox couldn't mount a winning streak with two big holes in the rotation. The offense wasn't strong enough to overcome many deficits.

5. Streaky PK and Thome in the 2nd half. AJ, Pods, Beckham, even Getz/ Nix, and Alexei put up decent numbers in the 2nd half. Yet with all the power guys hitting at or below their weights, no one was able to drive in the guys at the top and bottom of the order.