elrockinMT Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Phil Rogers article suggests that KW made some wrong moves in trading Vazquez and Swisher and was only too quick to dump them and their salaries. Regardless of the return with a couple of prospects-I think Flowers being #1- Vazquez and Swisher could have helped us win this thing. Sisher hit the hokes and drove in the runs and had ahigh on base percentage, but maybe his dugout antics didn't fit well with the team as a whole?I also heard last night on the MLB TV game aalysis with Harold Reynolds, Mitch Williams and the other partner (name?) that Vazquez was not handled right by Ozzie and that Bobbie Cox' demeanor and skills with handling pitchers is what turned Javy around this season to a 15-9 wiiner. Obviosuly many trains of thought here, but something to think about. Hopefully we don't see wholesale dumpig of players because of supposed "attitude issues." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Phil Rogers article suggests that KW made some wrong moves in trading Vazquez and Swisher and was only too quick to dump them and their salaries. Regardless of the return with a couple of prospects-I think Flowers being #1- Vazquez and Swisher could have helped us win this thing. Sisher hit the hokes and drove in the runs and had ahigh on base percentage, but maybe his dugout antics didn't fit well with the team as a whole?I also heard last night on the MLB TV game aalysis with Harold Reynolds, Mitch Williams and the other partner (name?) that Vazquez was not handled right by Ozzie and that Bobbie Cox' demeanor and skills with handling pitchers is what turned Javy around this season to a 15-9 wiiner. Obviosuly many trains of thought here, but something to think about. Hopefully we don't see wholesale dumpig of players because of supposed "attitude issues." Morons. Ozzie handled Javy just right when he had that great 2007 season while WE WERE OUT OF CONTENTION ALL YEAR. Â I now hate Phil Rogers even more. Just let the Swisher s*** die already. If we don't trade those guys then we don't have Rios, Peavy, Pods, Viciedo, Flowers, and Nunez. Yeah, I'll take that collection of talent over Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Phil Rogers article suggests that KW made some wrong moves in trading Vazquez and Swisher and was only too quick to dump them and their salaries. Regardless of the return with a couple of prospects-I think Flowers being #1- Vazquez and Swisher could have helped us win this thing. Sisher hit the hokes and drove in the runs and had ahigh on base percentage, but maybe his dugout antics didn't fit well with the team as a whole?I also heard last night on the MLB TV game aalysis with Harold Reynolds, Mitch Williams and the other partner (name?) that Vazquez was not handled right by Ozzie and that Bobbie Cox' demeanor and skills with handling pitchers is what turned Javy around this season to a 15-9 wiiner. Obviosuly many trains of thought here, but something to think about. Hopefully we don't see wholesale dumpig of players because of supposed "attitude issues." Essentially the Sox traded Vazquez for Flowers and with that money free'd up- it gave KW the flexibility to trade for Peavy. Who would you rather have, Peavy or Javy? We all know Javy's inability to pitch in big games- trading him was the right thing to do. Â As far as Swisher goes, Ozzie and him just didn't get a long and that is essentially the reason KW traded him. He had a down year offensively and he couldn't play the OF the way they wanted him to. Swisher's only value to this team was his defensive ability at 1B. KW wasn't going to spend 7-8 mil/season on a guy to backup PK. Its a shame we couldn't get more in return for Swish but in the long term scheme of things- this deal makes sense. Â I have been very pleased with KW's deals for the most part in 2009. Granit we missed the playoffs but we had the oppurtunity to see many young players play on a consistent basis. Beckham and Getz both have bright futures, Richard and Poreda pitched well enough for us to net Peavy and we brought over Rios for nothing. This team going into 2010 has the making of a very good team. Â Who will KW trade this winter? Two guys who can bring a lot back would be Alexei and Jenks. This should be a fun winter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaliciense1 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 The reason vazquez is doing good this year is because hes in the national league and his team has never really been thought of as a contener and hes playing in a pitchers ballpark. its dumb to think he would have turned it around here. good stuff but he needs to develop some balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) The reason vazquez is doing good this year is because hes in the national league and his team has never really been thought of as a contener and hes playing in a pitchers ballpark. its dumb to think he would have turned it around here. good stuff but he needs to develop some balls NL east has more runs scored than the AL central. Edited September 26, 2009 by son of a rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Phil Rogers also mentioned in his article today a Zambrano for Peavy swap. If KW does that...I might seriously consider realigning my loyalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Phil Rogers also mentioned in his article today a Zambrano for Peavy swap. If KW does that...I might seriously consider realigning my loyalties. Phil Rogers is a f***ing moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 03:54 PM) Morons. Ozzie handled Javy just right when he had that great 2007 season while WE WERE OUT OF CONTENTION ALL YEAR. I now hate Phil Rogers even more. Just let the Swisher s*** die already. If we don't trade those guys then we don't have Rios, Peavy, Pods, Viciedo, Flowers, and Nunez. Yeah, I'll take that collection of talent over Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez.  I'm with you.  Stop living in the past....WE NEVER SHOULD OF TRADED JOSH FOGG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Im begining to question Phil Rogers as an analyst. The dude is starting to write some bone headed articles over the past 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaliciense1 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) NL east has more runs scored than the AL central. Â Â You cant compare pitching in the american league to pitching in the national league. And they dont only face division opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Must be a slow news day if this is being brought up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Phil Rogers is a f***ing moron. Â At the very least, he obviously cares more about incorporating controversy into his articles than thoughtful baseball writing. One would have to be inhumanly stupid to honestly believe that dealing Peavy for Zambrano would be a good idea for the Sox. I'll give Phil the benefit of the doubt and conclude that he's working hard to pander to the Jay Hineybird demographic. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochisox Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 If the goal was to win this year, then we shouldve kept them. If the goal is to build a better team for later - 2010 and on with Peavy and Rios instead, then we shouldve let them go. Personally I would rather have Peavy and Rios and look forward to the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I guess someone has to take over for Moronotti..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 The Swisher trade was absolutely awful, and I'm happy to see KW getting some heat for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) The Swisher trade was absolutely awful, and I'm happy to see KW getting some heat for it. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZPride08 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) The Swisher trade was absolutely awful, and I'm happy to see KW getting some heat for it. Â He's getting heat from someone whose bringing up a Big Z for Peavy trade, the guys not to smart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (LZPride08 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 04:55 PM) the guys not to smart Edited September 26, 2009 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Swisher trade in retrospect shouldn't have been made. Honestly, KW, from what it sounds like, is going to look for a guy like him who they could swap out at DH and place in different positions such as OF/1B/DH, he has a good OBP and has good enough power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 05:43 PM) The Swisher trade was absolutely awful, and I'm happy to see KW getting some heat for it. Exactly. It was a disaster. There's no logical excuse for the return we got, not to mention for trading the guy in the 1st place. Probably the worst move KW has ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 03:40 PM) Swisher trade in retrospect shouldn't have been made. Honestly, KW, from what it sounds like, is going to look for a guy like him who they could swap out at DH and place in different positions such as OF/1B/DH, he has a good OBP and has good enough power. Â Swisher was a bad fit on this team, period. Ozzie and (allegedly) most of the veterans thought that he was a jackass. And when Swish slumped, he sulked and wouldn't listen to Walker. Don't automatically assume that Swish would've kicked ass at the plate had he been on the Sox this year. He didn't like playing here and the other people in the dugout didn't want here either. It's difficult to be productive in a work environment like that. Edited September 26, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Swisher was a bad fit on this team, period. Ozzie and (allegedly) most of the veterans thought that he was a jackass. And when Swish slumped, he sulked and wouldn't listen to Walker. Don't automatically assume that Swish would've kicked ass at the plate had he been on the Sox this year. He didn't like playing here and the other people in the dugout didn't want here either. It's difficult to be productive in a work environment like that. Link to the veterans complaining about him. I know Ozzie didn't like him, but I don't recall any teammates ripping on him. Â I thought Swisher's contract was a bargain??? It was when we acquired him, but then it became an albatross after a single below average season from him. Then some how it's a good thing that we acquired an overpaid prick in Rios and an expensive Jake Peavy (He's good, but he is paid well above market average.) Â Is it possible to think all that cash now tied up with those two will force us to possibly trade Jenks, Konerko, and maybe in a couple years, Danks and/or Quentin because we can't fit them in our budget? If that happens will people tie those with the Rios waiver claim or Peavy trade? Â Doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Exactly. It was a disaster. There's no logical excuse for the return we got, not to mention for trading the guy in the 1st place. Probably the worst move KW has ever made. Â I'll never rip KW for trading that bum. KW got what he could for him. How do you know Swish ever would have played well in a Sox uniform? If he's doing better in New York, good for him. He sucked in Chicago and apparently was a cancer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Rogers is a proven pud. Â Of all the writers Baseball America could've gotten to write about the Sox, they got this doofus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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