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QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 05:45 PM)
Abreu rejected the Angels 2 year 16 million extension. Would you guys offer 3 years for 24 million?

f*** no.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 04:17 PM)
A 3 yr deal would be very foolish.

Would you do 2/$20 to beat the Angels offer?

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 01:35 AM)
Would you do 2/$20 to beat the Angels offer?

I would do 2/20 if 2/year was incentivized. I doubt Kenny does though. He seems to do more on the trade front.

 

I want Beltre and BJ Upton. Not sure how we'd get Upton though.

 

2B Getz

CF Upton

SS Beckham

LF Quentin

CA Pierzynski

1B Konerko

RF Rios

3B Beltre

DH Kotsay

 

Alot of speed and good defense in that lineup. A balance of pop too. 6 of those guys could hit 20hr. 4 could hit 30hr.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 08:35 PM)
Would you do 2/$20 to beat the Angels offer?

 

Are people willing to offer than and realize you have to trade at least one big contract to get that, and oh yeah, he might be playing the field?

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This has been asked before, but why would this guy leave the Angels? Would we really offer him much more than Anaheim?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 09:02 PM)
Are people willing to offer than and realize you have to trade at least one big contract to get that, and oh yeah, he might be playing the field?

Can I ask how you know we'd have to trade a big contract in order to add one? I really don't have too much insight about the Sox's projected payroll for 2010. I just keep reading people's posts saying we're pretty much maxed out. I'm curious if people have heard something I haven't.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:38 PM)
Can I ask how you know we'd have to trade a big contract in order to add one? I really don't have too much insight about the Sox's projected payroll for 2010. I just keep reading people's posts saying we're pretty much maxed out. I'm curious if people have heard something I haven't.

 

It's basically just reading between the lines, using past history as a guide, the personalities of our FO as well as the attendance this year, etc...it doesn't take a rocket scientist...

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:53 PM)
It's basically just reading between the lines, using past history as a guide, the personalities of our FO as well as the attendance this year, etc...it doesn't take a rocket scientist...

Not that I'm trying to doubt you, but I guess I'll wait and see what happens. I just think it's too difficult right now to predict next season's payroll using past history. The club lowered payroll last year in preparation of the economic crisis. If they think the economy will be better next year, at least for baseball, maybe they will put more money back into the team. On the other hand, I know that the contracts of several big advertisers were up after this season. Honestly, I could see the payroll heading in either direction. I think it's a bit premature to automatically assume payroll will remain static or go down. Not that I'm expecting any significant changes.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:56 PM)
Not that I'm trying to doubt you, but I guess I'll wait and see what happens. I just think it's too difficult right now to predict next season's payroll using past history. The club lowered payroll last year in preparation of the economic crisis. If they think the economy will be better next year, at least for baseball, maybe they will put more money back into the team. On the other hand, I know that the contracts of several big advertisers were up after this season. Honestly, I could see the payroll heading in either direction. I think it's a bit premature to automatically assume payroll will remain static or go down. Not that I'm expecting any significant changes.

 

I think they did put more money back into the team when they traded for both Peavy and Rios...

 

I understand what you're saying, but when you add up the numbers, you get the picture...

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 01:56 AM)
Not that I'm trying to doubt you, but I guess I'll wait and see what happens. I just think it's too difficult right now to predict next season's payroll using past history. The club lowered payroll last year in preparation of the economic crisis. If they think the economy will be better next year, at least for baseball, maybe they will put more money back into the team. On the other hand, I know that the contracts of several big advertisers were up after this season. Honestly, I could see the payroll heading in either direction. I think it's a bit premature to automatically assume payroll will remain static or go down. Not that I'm expecting any significant changes.

 

Attendance was down something like 6%..the sox lost a lot of sponsorship and advertising deals for 2009. The sox couldnt draw a lick in spring training. You will those effect the 2010 payroll and budget, always take a period to filter down.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:38 PM)
Can I ask how you know we'd have to trade a big contract in order to add one? I really don't have too much insight about the Sox's projected payroll for 2010. I just keep reading people's posts saying we're pretty much maxed out. I'm curious if people have heard something I haven't.

They raised ticket prices after 2008 and lowered payroll. Thats after a higher attendance figure plus 3 extra gates. They also had an excellent season ticketholder renewal rate basically locked it. Attendance down, no extra gate, ticket prices remain the same no guarantee on the renewal and some lost advertising revenue. Considering they said they were beyond their limit in 2009, I think its rather safe to assume the payroll isn't going up and probably not remaining the same.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:38 PM)
Can I ask how you know we'd have to trade a big contract in order to add one? I really don't have too much insight about the Sox's projected payroll for 2010. I just keep reading people's posts saying we're pretty much maxed out. I'm curious if people have heard something I haven't.

 

We are at $90 million essentially without adding a single free agent. Keep in mind that we went from 2,500,648 to 2,284,163 in total attendance, and we are publicly worried as an organization about losing major sponsors this year. If we add a 10 million dollar player that puts us at one hundred million dollars, which is a bit more than 2009, with all of those negative factors? Yeah, that isn't going to happen.

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Just my guess, but I think what might be happening is that Linebrink gets a bit tired (every pitcher goes through that dead arm period) around the second half and then he gets lit up a bit as a result. After that he just can't get back to where he was mentally even though he gets stronger again. I mean, I've seen some horrible, horrible pitches from him in good pitchers counts, and I've seen him go out there looking like he has it all working for him and then boom, now we're out of the ballgame.

 

Hello everyone;

This is my first post (please be gentle) although I have visited this site for years.

 

Let me first state that overall I like Ozzie as a manager and think that he does a good job. That being said, this is one of my "bones to pick". Linebrink is a great example of a reliever that Ozzie goes to much too often, especially early in the year. I realize that games in April and May count just as much as games in August and September, but I think that you need to use your entire bullpen, especially early in the season to not only find out what each reliever is capable of in game situations, but more importantly to pace your top relievers so that they can be effective later on in the season.

It seems to me that there are too many games early in the season when we see the same 2 or 3 relievers. Could it be that guys like Linebrink , with their limited physical health are worn down by the time crunch time comes?

I know that it would help if you had other quality arms to turn to, but what good is burning out your good arms early.

Edited by balfanman

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 06:35 PM)
Would you do 2/$20 to beat the Angels offer?

Probably not. That is a lot of money for a pure DH. Abreu isn't very good defensively anymore and he's definitely going to break down soon. I don't think the Sox are in a position where they should put 10M a year into a player like Bobby.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 10:54 AM)
Hello everyone;

This is my first post (please be gentle) although I have visited this site for years.

 

Let me first state that overall I like Ozzie as a manager and think that he does a good job. That being said, this is one of my "bones to pick". Linebrink is a great example of a reliever that Ozzie goes to much too often, especially early in the year. I realize that games in April and May count just as much as games in August and September, but I think that you need to use your entire bullpen, especially early in the season to not only find out what each reliever is capable of in game situations, but more importantly to pace your top relievers so that they can be effective later on in the season.

It seems to me that there are too many games early in the season when we see the same 2 or 3 relievers. Could it be that guys like Linebrink , with their limited physical health are worn down by the time crunch time comes?

I know that it would help if you had other quality arms to turn to, but what good is burning out your good arms early.

 

Welcome to Soxtalk! :cheers

 

I honestly don't think Linebrink gets overused. It seems as though he was used much more in San Diego than he has ever been used here. Part of the reason he does get lit up here is because Ozzie realizes we do not have a strong bullpen without him being able to contribute, and so he gives him every opportunity to redeem himself, even though Linebrink never seems to be able to do so.

 

Honestly, he is a bit of a mystery to me.

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Linebrink was much younger in his San Diego days though. Didn't Linebrink say something to the effect within the last year that his shoulder was not 100%, nor was it ever going to be.

I'm thinking that Linebrink can still be an effective reliever, I might even say a key reliever, if Ozzie picks his spots with a little more stinginess.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 02:16 PM)
Linebrink was much younger in his San Diego days though. Didn't Linebrink say something to the effect within the last year that his shoulder was not 100%, nor was it ever going to be.

I'm thinking that Linebrink can still be an effective reliever, I might even say a key reliever, if Ozzie picks his spots with a little more stinginess.

 

Yeah, but then there are plenty of guys who have been able to make 75-85 appearances a year well into their late thirties. If he does have an injury problem, one which limits the amount of appearances he is able to make, than perhaps you're right, and he should be limited to 50 appearances a year. I'm just curious if he even deserves a spot in the pen though if that is the case (and it is difficult to not put him in there with his $5 million a year salary).

 

What makes me curious about the injury factor though is that he seemed to have the velocity at the end of the year. Does the injury maybe limit his ability or desire to throw breaking pitches?

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Does anyone know whether or not he's throwing pain free at the end of the year though? Maybe he is just "gutting up" to get maximum velocity and his control goes out the window. Someone was mentioning, I forget who, that his main problem was location not stuff.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 02:35 PM)
Does anyone know whether or not he's throwing pain free at the end of the year though? Maybe he is just "gutting up" to get maximum velocity and his control goes out the window. Someone was mentioning, I forget who, that his main problem was location not stuff.

A lot of people here have said that. Location and pitch selection have been huge problems for him. His fastball is still hard and it still sinks, and his splitter is still nasty, so if he could just work lower in the zone more often instead of constantly thigh-high or above, and if he could try *really hard* to not start off every freaking hitter with a meatball right down the middle of the plate, then maybe he could be successful all year long again.

 

You might be right about him just looking for velocity. Maybe there's pain and he's trying to suck it up so he ends up overthrowing. I kind of think it might be a mental thing that leads to a mechanical thing where he can't get the damn ball down, but whatever the case, I'm sure Coop knows what's wrong. I just hope that whatever Coop sees is correctable, i.e. Linebrink is someone Coop will be able to work with.

 

PS Welcome to SoxTalk!

Edited by Kenny Hates Prospects

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QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 03:44 PM)
PS Welcome to SoxTalk!

 

Thank you. It's great to actually carry on quality baseball conversation.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 02:16 PM)
Linebrink was much younger in his San Diego days though. Didn't Linebrink say something to the effect within the last year that his shoulder was not 100%, nor was it ever going to be.

I'm thinking that Linebrink can still be an effective reliever, I might even say a key reliever, if Ozzie picks his spots with a little more stinginess.

 

I think you said something about that right before spring training. If that's true his shoulder must be altering his mechanics to the point where where he can't keep them consistent. He can be a "key reliever" but we need to find someone else to be able to work the 8th alongside him enable to get him the rest he needs. The pen was money the first what couple months of the season, but as soon as Dotel started to loose it, so did Linebrink. It might be coincidence, but maybe he was feeling to much pressure to preform perfectly with our "7th inning" guy stinking up the joint.

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QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 20, 2009 -> 04:54 PM)
Hello everyone;

This is my first post (please be gentle) although I have visited this site for years.

 

Let me first state that overall I like Ozzie as a manager and think that he does a good job. That being said, this is one of my "bones to pick". Linebrink is a great example of a reliever that Ozzie goes to much too often, especially early in the year. I realize that games in April and May count just as much as games in August and September, but I think that you need to use your entire bullpen, especially early in the season to not only find out what each reliever is capable of in game situations, but more importantly to pace your top relievers so that they can be effective later on in the season.

It seems to me that there are too many games early in the season when we see the same 2 or 3 relievers. Could it be that guys like Linebrink , with their limited physical health are worn down by the time crunch time comes?

I know that it would help if you had other quality arms to turn to, but what good is burning out your good arms early.

Welcome aboard :gosoxretro:

 

One thing with Linebrink is his 2nd half splits. He's been horrible for the last 5 or so years after the ASB. That, IMO, is on Linebrink not Ozzie. Linebrink stated that he might start throwing in Dec this year in the offseason [once a week]. IIRC, he stated that he would mostly just rest his arm in the offseason. With his poor 2nd halves, he needs a better training regimen instead of just rest. What he's been doing hasn't been working. He also said he was healthy this offseason, which would allow him to throw and train.

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