What to do

[BamaDoc]

There is an old adage in baseball that since you can't fire the team, you fire the manager which is not what I am suggesting. We have played 20 percent of the season and look horrible. Threads of Ozzie is outmanaged appear daily but he hasn't lost the ability to manage, the players aren't executing. On most nights, we are trotting out a line up with seven hitters hitting under .220. These hitters can be expected to return toward there norms and should in time. We are not talking about severely aged players who have crashed........in fact the most likely one to do so Konerko is having a good start.

 

We have to move Walker. I loved him as a player and respect his effort as a coach but for several years we have seen the same struggles. Ozzie can be loyal to a fault and has said he will go before his coaches. How about a compromise, Walker is not fired but reassigned as a minor league roving instructor while someone new comes in. I loved Charlie Lau/ walt Hriniak school of hitting but that is to drastic an in season change. Rather, I stay with a current philosophical hitting coach with a polar opposite personality. Sometimes hearing the same stuff a different way works.

 

The new coach should be energetic as opposed to laid back. He should succeed because the players are due to revert to form. Ozzie becomes smarter because the players do what they are capable of doing. It's the players and Ozzie is right in that regard but a shake up is needed. If no change in performance during the next month fire sale.

 

Remember Whitey Herzog's comment when Bruce Sutter signed with Atlanta....."Well, I just got fifty games dumber....."

[caulfield12]

I've been involved in enough fire Walker threads through the years.

 

Firing him in-season won't do anything, and it makes little to no sense.

 

It's the kind of move you wait until the end of the year. Yes, you can argue it's better for the new coach to get a head start on working with the hitters, but the problem is that the hitting coach we probably'd want is already under contract with another team.

 

Having an interim organizational hitting coach like Chris Chambliss come in....well, it's a change, but just a change for changing's sake. It's just like putting red, white and blue bunting on the Titanic, the ship still sinks in the end, no matter how you try to dress it up.

 

It also depends on how you view the struggles of Quentin (injury-related, psychological/intensity/stress), Ramirez and Beckham.

 

Nobody could argue that he hasn't done a wonderful job getting Alex Rios and Andruw Jones turned around. Konerko's having a career year. As Dick Allen will point out, the runs scored is less of an issue than runs allowed by the supposedly #1-3 rotation in the AL coming into the season, yes?

 

Did you really expect Juan Pierre, Mark Kotsay, Omar Vizquel and Mark Teahen to be good?

 

Can anyone be surprised if AJ Pierzynski is declining with all the intense, pressure-filled games he's played in his career at catcher?

Edited May 11, 2010 by caulfield12

[balfanman]

I agree that something needs to be done to shake this team out of its doldrums, but I don't think that changing the hitting coach is a big enough change to do it. I don't know what needs to be done, I just don't think that this is it. But who knows, it might work. Worth a try I guess.

[Y2HH]

Fire X threads are always useless.

 

Blaming Oz or Walker for everything that goes wrong while giving them no credit for anything that goes right is convenient for such arguments, but in the end, useless.

 

If Walker sucks so much, explain Konerko, Rios and Jones. Examples like this go on and on for every coach mentioned.

[BigSqwert]

If Walker sucks so much, explain Konerko, Rios and Jones.

 

Easy. Walker doesn't mess with the veterans. They're doing it on their own.

 

Walker could go AWOL as of today and spend the rest of the year camping in Montana and it wouldn't make any difference to our hitting. He might be the most irrelevant person on the Sox payroll. He basically gets paid to fly around with the team.

[BamaDoc]

I agree that it it is not necessarily Walker's fault and am advocating change for change sake. I agree it is unfair to blame bad numbers on him and not give credit for good although you can argue Konerko only up in power, Rios has relaxed, and Jones is in shape as reasons.

[LittleHurt05]

Easy. Walker doesn't mess with the veterans. They're doing it on their own.

 

Walker could go AWOL as of today and spend the rest of the year camping in Montana and it wouldn't make any difference to our hitting. He might be the most irrelevant person on the Sox payroll. He basically gets paid to fly around with the team.

 

I'd say most hitting coaches are mostly irrelevant and are paid just to stand around and watch batting practice.

[Y2HH]

Easy. Walker doesn't mess with the veterans. They're doing it on their own.

 

Walker could go AWOL as of today and spend the rest of the year camping in Montana and it wouldn't make any difference to our hitting. He might be the most irrelevant person on the Sox payroll. He basically gets paid to fly around with the team.

 

They got to the majors on their own -- they don't need Walker now. Nor do the veterans.

 

And IIRC, Walker had Rios drop his hands to a lower starting position -- and suddenly he can hit again.

 

Walker is meaningless, all hitting coaches are meaningless. Even the rookies got to the Majors.

[clyons]

I think sometimes its just not your year. Radical moves aren't always necessarry. This team is more disappointing than outright bad. The 2008 Detroit Tigers were an awful, last place club too, but essentially that same team tied for the division the very next season.

 

We shouldn't make changes for changes sake. We still need a bona fide leadoff man and DH, but that's no surprise to anyone. We'll probably have a new 1st baseman and catcher next year, but those moves have been pending for awhile and will be influenced more by contract status than how we finish in the standings. Imo, the only future move truly dictated by recent poor performance is closer, as Booby seems to be declining over time.

 

I think Kenny should and will be patient. Not necessarily for this year, but for next. I think our "win now" window is open for more than just this one season, which is a good thing, because I fear this season is lost. I'm not convinced, however, that its the fault of any particular person(s).

[whitem0nkey]

when comparing chicago to east coat fan bases it seems like we blame the coaches while they blame the players if things are not going well.

 

I think they have it right. you need to hold the player accountable.

[LittleHurt05]

when comparing chicago to east coat fan bases it seems like we blame the coaches while they blame the players if things are not going well.

 

I think they have it right. you need to hold the player accountable.

 

I think people around here are holding the players accountable, even CQ & Becks & AJP recently. The problem is you can't hold Kotsay & Vizquel accountable, when the rest of baseball knows they are old & bad, yet KW/Ozzie is putting them in these situations that its obvious they won't perform well.

[Lemon_44]

Any team is going to struggle mightily when your top 2 in the lineup are barely hitting above .200 and your supposed #1 threat,Quentin, is hitting .200 as well. I'm a big Ozzie fan but i fault him at running the same lineup out there everyday and expecting something different. He dropped Pierre for a game or two and he's repsonded by picking up his hitting. He needs to drop Beckham down in the order until he gets himself going. Batting Teahen second aginst righties may give him a needed confidence boost and bat Alexei second against lefties. At least mix thing up and try something. The roster is not going to change much so OG needs to tinker with it until he hopefully finds something that works.