clyons Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:38 PM) He is the best prospect that we had to call up and start for us this year. That I understand and agree with, but I didn't get the "impactful" part. He really hasn't made much of an "impact" so far, and we'll never know whether he could have or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) If the Sox had 8mil to spend and Hudson and this is all they can get, it should say how much Hudson was worth. I think this is too big of an assumption to make. We have no idea what other players were offered for Hudson or who KW went after in a Hudson deal. Perhaps the bigger names than Jackson required another player to the deal that KW didn't want to give up. Or perhaps whoever those other trade targets were those teams were driving up the price or liked other teams offers more. Was Hudson offered for Haren or Oswalt? Heck I don't know. But just because Jackson is who we got for Hudson in no way means that we traded him for his peak value. If you are right and this is the case, I would have preferred to keep Hudson and let him pitch in the bigs and see how good he becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:42 PM) I'm sure it's been brought up (I don't have time to read ~65 pages of stuff), but Jax was good (great, even) as recently as last year. There are a billion reasons a young pitcher can regress that don't include him being bad. I'm amazed that people view his CEILING as a 4th or 5th starter when he has pitched like a #2 not long ago. Jax was not Good nor great last year. Edwin Jackson put up a spectacular set of numbers in the first half of last season based on putting up a .249 BABIP. His BABIP, as we always say it does, regressed towards his career mean of .315 in the 2nd half. In the first half of last season he put up an ERA around 2.5, in the 2nd half he put up an ERA of 5.07. Edwin Jackson's terrible 2nd half was key to the Twins taking the division from the Tigers last year. Hell, he was on the mound for Game 162 and the White Sox shelled him. He's putting up an ERA >5 this season in the National League for a reason. And it's not because of his BABIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) Trust me I'm not oozing my pants over this trade, but at the same time I'm not incredibly devastated over the loss of Daniel Hudson as many others seem to be. He became highly overvalued around these parts. Its not the loss of Hudson Im all that worried about, its the fact we dont ahve a cheap young starter to fill out our rotation anymore and we just keep adding to a payroll that will force key contributors out during teh offseason without having viable replacements for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) I think this is too big of an assumption to make. We have no idea what other players were offered for Hudson or who KW went after in a Hudson deal. Perhaps the bigger names than Jackson required another player to the deal that KW didn't want to give up. Or perhaps whoever those other trade targets were those teams were driving up the price or liked other teams offers more. Was Hudson offered for Haren or Oswalt? Heck I don't know. But just because Jackson is who we got for Hudson in no way means that we traded him for his peak value. If you are right and this is the case, I would have preferred to keep Hudson and let him pitch in the bigs and see how good he becomes. Very well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) Its not the loss of Hudson Im all that worried about, its the fact we dont ahve a cheap young starter to fill out our rotation anymore and we just keep adding to a payroll that will force key contributors out during teh offseason without having viable replacements for them. With regards to that I would hope the Sox would have more foresight towards next years roster, but if this contract does come back and cripple them then yes you are all right. They are high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) Sounds like Yankees are going to get either Dunn or Berkman. And as for Jackson, what scares me is that he had a dead arm to start the year, and now he has another dead arm. not that I don't believe you, I am just working on a research project and monitoring this stuff, so could you please post sources... Gammons was the last about NYY, but other sources have said NYY are out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Next year the Sox could trade Jackson. Hes still young and has talent. That is why im not so concerned about the impact of the salary next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) Jax was not Good nor great last year. Edwin Jackson put up a spectacular set of numbers in the first half of last season based on putting up a .249 BABIP. His BABIP, as we always say it does, regressed towards his career mean of .315 in the 2nd half. In the first half of last season he put up an ERA around 2.5, in the 2nd half he put up an ERA of 5.07. Edwin Jackson's terrible 2nd half was key to the Twins taking the division from the Tigers last year. Hell, he was on the mound for Game 162 and the White Sox shelled him. He's putting up an ERA >5 this season in the National League for a reason. And it's not because of his BABIP. I think that was game 161. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) Jax was not Good nor great last year. Edwin Jackson put up a spectacular set of numbers in the first half of last season based on putting up a .249 BABIP. His BABIP, as we always say it does, regressed towards his career mean of .315 in the 2nd half. In the first half of last season he put up an ERA around 2.5, in the 2nd half he put up an ERA of 5.07. Edwin Jackson's terrible 2nd half was key to the Twins taking the division from the Tigers last year. Hell, he was on the mound for Game 162 and the White Sox shelled him. He's putting up an ERA >5 this season in the National League for a reason. Besides June, hes been atrocious. April/March 1 2 .333 6.67 5 5 0 0 0 0 28.1 36 21 21 3 9 0 17 2 0 1 126 1.588 5.4 1.89 May 2 4 .333 5.58 6 6 0 0 0 0 40.1 38 25 25 7 16 1 43 1 0 6 169 1.339 9.6 2.69 June 2 0 1.000 2.11 5 5 0 1 1 0 38.1 29 10 9 0 20 0 25 1 0 4 159 1.278 5.9 1.25 July 1 4 .200 7.24 5 5 0 0 0 0 27.1 38 24 22 3 15 1 19 1 0 2 133 1.939 6.3 1.27 Edited July 30, 2010 by bigruss22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:46 PM) With regards to that I would hope the Sox would have more foresight towards next years roster, but if this contract does come back and cripple them then yes you are all right. They are high well there's also the chance he thrives with the Sox and 8.5 is a reasonable price for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:47 PM) Next year the Sox could trade Jackson. Hes still young and has talent. That is why im not so concerned about the impact of the salary next year. BUT...if the Sox trade Jackson...what are the odds that they'll be able to deal him for an MLB ready back of the rotation minimum salary young starting pitcher? Clearing that salary doesn't help much if we can't get a cheap starter to put in his place; we'd still have to go out and buy on the FA market. I'd say they're ridiculously low. Jackson could come out and dominate for us and I'd still doubt that anyone would give that up for Jackson. You want to be the team that trades for a guy that has been traded/dumped by 4 teams since the 2008 offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:40 PM) How can anybody argue with bearSox's post. That to me was the concise post of the decade. you say this about every post you agree with. There is plenty to argue with about that post, most notably that we dont know that Arizona wanted Harrell instead of Hudson(most likely they DIDNT want Harrell). I kind of think KW would of kept Hudson if he could of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:47 PM) Next year the Sox could trade Jackson. Hes still young and has talent. That is why im not so concerned about the impact of the salary next year. Right, keep trading him until he makes his way around the league. If he doesnt turn it around his value will be next to nothing with that salary he has next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyLawRules Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 ScottMCBSSports Danny Knobler in DC, Adam Dunn says no problem with DHing or #chisox if traded: http://bit.ly/c22dII 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck Retweeted by JimBowdenXMFOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattZakrowski Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 ScottMCBSSports Danny Knobler in DC, Adam Dunn says no problem with DHing or #chisox if traded: http://bit.ly/c22dII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I think that the market for Jackson is better than the market for Hudson. KW basically had to give Hudson away, so I think he can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 THis trade just gets worse and worse the more i look at it. Ugh, hes so bad. I'd take Hudson 100 times out of 100 over Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 God, i hope this is a move to get Adam Dunn because if it isn't we just got hosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Honestly, the only thing that makes sense about this move is if KW spins Jackson over to the Nats for Dunn. Otherwise, looking at it from every angle, it is a dumb trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 lol Adam.... "I like their uniforms," Dunn said. "I like black." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:44 PM) I haven't read everything and probably won't because I don't have that type of time. In the end though, I'm very happy if we keep Jackson. As a 4th or 5th starter, he can definitely get us to the playoffs. In the playoffs, he can be an electric arm out of the pen. I think if he can get with a good pitching coach, he's a better player for it. I won't be too upset if he isn't flipped for Dunn or anyone else. I won't be too upset if he isn't flipped for another bat. With Peavy and Hudson out of the picture, trading Jackson for a DH would arguably make our situation even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:48 PM) Right, keep trading him until he makes his way around the league. If he doesnt turn it around his value will be next to nothing with that salary he has next season. unless he pitches well in his 10 or whatever starts with the Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I will say this...this trade has produced 2 very odd groupings of people who agree/disagree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 KW presser at 4:30 per the Score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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