Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:16 PM) There is no benefit. If you lose the game today because you had to throw Lucas Harrel out there, then Jackson's value to this team the rest of the way decreases even more. Jackson projects to be a guy who can give you 1.5 wins from here on out, nothing awesome. No offense to you in particular, but I find it pretty absurd people throw projections around like they are guaranteed to happen. We are talking about a guy getting to traded to a new team in a new league that plays in a different park with different defenders and has a different pitching coach. There are so many variables at play here that projections are meaningless at this time IMO. I have no doubt that giving up Hudson and Holmberg is an overpay, but that's what happens when you acquire starting pitching at the deadline. I don't see how anyone could think this move makes us worse THIS SEASON. At worst, he should be slightly better than Hudson this year simply because he can eat innings. Furthermore, the guy has the skillset to be dominant postseason starter. I'm not saying he will, but if he can get hot by the end of the year, this team is much more dangerous playoff team with him as our #4 starter than Garcia or Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:26 PM) he's had spasms of goodness. Not this year. He's just been good all-around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Anyone else nervous that the Big Deal Kenny is trying to make revolves around Danks or some one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:25 PM) Unless I missed something, Chris Young isn't a pitcher! Guess I should have made that part a bit more clear. I'm just saying, we (SoxTalk armchair GMs) get so attached to prospects that may never see the light of day, that we over-value them to the point of comedy. you missed something http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7412 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Funny - Tim Kurkjin just was on sportscenter saying that there is no way Jackson gets traded for Dunn and that he is sure that he will not be going to the Nationals. I just love this time of year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:26 PM) Thats the thing that gets me....people are fuming about losing Hudson for Jackson, who we'd control for another year+, but are all quite ok to give him up for Dunn, a 3 month strikeout machine rental... Well, there's many ways to look at this. If the Sox do acquire Dunn for Jackson (and nothing else), then they only gave up Hudson and a prospect for Dunn. On the flip side, I see your point about the 3 month rental. I think the Sox need a bat more than a pitcher...at least until they traded Hudson and may trade Jackson. Now they would have a hole in the 5th starter position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:27 PM) Buzzkill: Tim Kurkjian of ESPN reporting that the Nationals told him directly they are NOT trading Dunn to the White Sox for Edwin Jackson Who are the Sox giving to the National for Dunn then? Notice that they didn't say that Dunn was not going to the Sox. Sox may really want to keep Jackson and another package on the way to Washington. Santos and Flowers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:29 PM) How can you have such contradictory tweets in a span of 5 minutes? I wouldn't say it's contradictory. They want more than just Jackson is what Kurkjian is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:21 PM) Congrats, you might be the first person to prefer Jackson and/or Hudson over the best pitcher in the NL from the last decade. The same pitcher that had a no trade that said he WOULDN'T go the White Sox. Oswalt is a moot point not even worth discussing because we would never come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:29 PM) No offense to you in particular, but I find it pretty absurd people throw projections around like they are guaranteed to happen. We are talking about a guy getting to traded to a new team in a new league that plays in a different park with different defenders and has a different pitching coach. There are so many variables at play here that projections are meaningless at this time IMO. I have no doubt that giving up Hudson and Holmberg is an overpay, but that's what happens when you acquire starting pitching at the deadline. I don't see how anyone could think this move makes us worse THIS SEASON. At worst, he should be slightly better than Hudson this year simply because he can eat innings. Furthermore, the guy has the skillset to be dominant postseason starter. I'm not saying he will, but if he can get hot by the end of the year, this team is much more dangerous playoff team with him as our #4 starter than Garcia or Hudson. Nobody's saying it's GUARANTEED to happen, but it's to give you an idea of what he can bring based on his previous track record. We are all aware of the different variables he may encounter in a new environment. The 1.5 WAR production is actually a highly liberal estimate that would favor Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:26 PM) Thats the thing that gets me....people are fuming about losing Hudson for Jackson, who we'd control for another year+, but are all quite ok to give him up for Dunn, a 3 month strikeout machine rental... Who gives a s*** if he strikes out? He's an incredible offensive force. He'd immediately have the second highest wOBA on the team just behind Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) Who are the Sox giving to the National for Dunn then? Notice that they didn't say that Dunn was not going to the Sox. Sox may really want to keep Jackson and another package on the way to Washington. Santos and Flowers? I'm ok with FLowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:29 PM) Anyone else nervous that the Big Deal Kenny is trying to make revolves around Danks or some one? That would be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Ugh. Bowden just erased all those tweets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) Who are the Sox giving to the National for Dunn then? Notice that they didn't say that Dunn was not going to the Sox. Sox may really want to keep Jackson and another package on the way to Washington. Santos and Flowers? Wasn't the rumor about a week ago that it would be Viciedo + prospects going to Washington for Dunn? I wonder if that is still possibly the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 The Sox sent a press release to the Score about Jackson. They say they've never seen that for a guy that is just traded immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I like this Jackson trade. He's got great stuff and he's 26. He's not as bad as his ERA indicates. 4.27 FIP, .318 BABIP. His fly ball rate is only 30%. People overrated Hudson on this board, he was a no. 3 starter-at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (jphat007 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:32 PM) Ugh. Bowden just erased all those tweets. That's strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 KW better had assurances that the Nats would make a trade of Jackson and someone else for Dunn. We cannot have another Bulls/WWW situation on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 11:34 AM) That's strange. Obviously he thinks Kurkjian's info is better than his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:33 PM) I like this Jackson trade. He's got great stuff and he's 26. He's not as bad as his ERA indicates. 4.27 FIP, .318 BABIP. His fly ball rate is only 30%. People overrated Hudson on this board, he was a no. 3 starter-at best. People can say that Hudson is overrated all they want but the point is that this is an extreme over pay no matter how the f*** you look at it and there's absolutely no denying that. This trade blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (jphat007 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:32 PM) Ugh. Bowden just erased all those tweets. very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (G&T @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:32 PM) The Sox sent a press release to the Score about Jackson. They say they've never seen that for a guy that is just traded immediately. That's odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 just curious, what were Jacksons numbers vs Minnesota while with Detroit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Let's bring up another name. Daniel Cortes, or we can add Tyler Lumsden in for good measure. I remember when he was supposed to be around a Top 45-55 prospect in all of MILB. Hudson never came close to that level with most talent evaluators, let's be honest. I think because he was our lone bright spot among the upper tier starters, he became annointed as the payroll savior for 2011, but if he came up with that class in the late 90's (Jon Garland, Kip Wells, Ginter, Fogg, Barcelo, Buehrle, Rauch, Danny Wright, Jason Stumm) he would be the equivalent of Kevin Beirne or Aaron Myette. KW knows what he's doing in terms of pitching talent USUALLY. He's had his misses with the likes of Felix Diaz and Jon Adkins, but those were not made in the heat of a pennant race to compete, they were prospect returns on Lofton and Durham (thinking there would be no more draft picks coming back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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