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The key question for the rest of the year- Viciedo or Morel at third?

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Morel is the future at 3B. Play him everyday.

He will probably be a 20 HR-80 RBI guy and hit close to .300. I'm not sure what to do do with Viciedo, you can't shut down PK with the year he is having.

Maybe DH him and forget about Manny since he is not in our future.

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There's a reason the Sox moved Viciedo off 3B this year. He may make an appearance occassionally over there, but he will never be considered a regular there. He's probably a DH although I have heard many with the White Sox think he will eventually be a LF or RF. I just hope he can hit like Carlos Lee. That's who I compare him to. El Caballo was a 3B at one time, doesn't take many walks, can hit it a mile and weight is always a concern.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2010 -> 09:05 AM)
There's a reason the Sox moved Viciedo off 3B this year. He may make an appearance occassionally over there, but he will never be considered a regular there. He's probably a DH although I have heard many with the White Sox think he will eventually be a LF or RF. I just hope he can hit like Carlos Lee. That's who I compare him to. El Caballo was a 3B at one time, doesn't take many walks, can hit it a mile and weight is always a concern.

 

Seeing their defense at 3B and discipline at the plate, I can see the comparison. I do think Viciedo has way more raw power at the same ages though.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2010 -> 09:05 AM)
There's a reason the Sox moved Viciedo off 3B this year. He may make an appearance occassionally over there, but he will never be considered a regular there. He's probably a DH although I have heard many with the White Sox think he will eventually be a LF or RF. I just hope he can hit like Carlos Lee. That's who I compare him to. El Caballo was a 3B at one time, doesn't take many walks, can hit it a mile and weight is always a concern.

I wish/hope Viciedo could play RF. He has a cannon for an arm and if only he could be average at covering RF he would be a huge upgrade over what they have been putting in RF over the past couple of seasons. But since he's only been playing 3B/1B in the minors even though he doesn't look very good at those positions, maybe they see him as even more of a butcher in the OF--like Josh Fields/Pablo Ozuna/Adam Dunn bad out there.

 

But if he could play an average RF, it would solve a lot of Sox problems going into next season. With young cheap players like Morel at 3B, Beckham at 2B and Viciedo in RF the Sox would have more money available to bring back Paulie and AJ. If Quentin can DH and get back to a semblance of his 2008 production, the Sox would be set up pretty well. And Ozzie can still have his rotating DH going with Viciedo backing up Paulie at 1B and Q going to RF when Paulie needs to DH.

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When considering a 21 year old player's defensive potential, you really can't evaluate him by what you see in the field now.

 

Viciedo has soft hands and a cannon arm. Those are things you can't teach. The rest (most of it anyway) can be learned via coaching and experience.

 

That said, I do not think Viciedo will end up at 3B. His bat is near-ready now, and the Sox won't allow him to 'learn' 3B at the major league level if they have other options.

 

Next year, I picture he'll start the year in Charlotte at 1B, unless he makes the club and rotates between 1B and DH. But I'd rather he get more at-bats in the minors and work on hitting off-speed stuff.

 

Long term... I could see them pulling a Ryan Braun and sticking him in an outfield corner, probably left. Would do much less damage defensively that way and allow them to make use of his best defensive attribute... his arm.

 

 

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It's nice to have 2 young options at 3rd base. If Morel can hit at all he will be there for quite a while. Right now it's more important for Dayan to learn to be more selective at the plate. He will just have to adjust to playing another position such as OF , 1st or DH.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 19, 2010 -> 03:53 PM)
It's nice to have 2 young options at 3rd base. If Morel can hit at all he will be there for quite a while. Right now it's more important for Dayan to learn to be more selective at the plate. He will just have to adjust to playing another position such as OF , 1st or DH.

 

Morel continues to impress. He's hitting the ball to all fields and to the deepest part of the park. And he is spectacular defensively. Ahead of both Crede and Ventura at the same age - per Ozzie...all of this with a TORN LABRUM. Wow.

He and Sale are quality prospects for sure.

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"I don't think Viciedo is ready. That's my opinion," said Guillen of the 21-year-old Cuban. "To play in the big leagues? You see a good couple of at-bats here and there, but to get a good 500 at-bats, I would think about it.

 

"He's still far away from being here, a year away or maybe two years away. I don't know how far away. Right now, I don't think he can perform every day. We have to wait and see in Spring Training how mature he is and how he comes back. It's good for him to taste a little bit of the big league level and how people do stuff here."

 

Read rest here.

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QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 05:39 AM)

For once I actually agree with Ozzie that he's genuinely not ready yet.

 

I don't think he's 2 years away though. His learning curve has been much steeper this year than I expected.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 07:48 AM)
For once I actually agree with Ozzie that he's genuinely not ready yet.

 

I don't think he's 2 years away though. His learning curve has been much steeper this year than I expected.

 

From the article we can find out organization see's him as a 1B/DH type, give him a full year in AAA.

 

 

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QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 09:53 AM)
From the article we can find out organization see's him as a 1B/DH type, give him a full year in AAA.

If his learning curve this offseason is as steep as it was this season...I sincerely doubt you're going to want him in AAA after a few weeks of next season. He's got a chance to be destroying everyone in the minors next year.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 08:55 AM)
If his learning curve this offseason is as steep as it was this season...I sincerely doubt you're going to want him in AAA after a few weeks of next season. He's got a chance to be destroying everyone in the minors next year.

I am still scared by his lack of walks, but if he can improve that next year, I do think he'll be a force with the bat.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 07:48 AM)
For once I actually agree with Ozzie that he's genuinely not ready yet.

 

I don't think he's 2 years away though. His learning curve has been much steeper this year than I expected.

 

How can you see this kid play and think he is ready? No part of his game is major league ready yet. If he is too far behind the curve, you risk doing more harm than good by having him up here. Ozzie actually got this right by picking the match up's he put Dayan in for.

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I watched the Sunday game versus the Tigers and Morel looked real good with the glove and stil working on the offesne, but he just might be the main man at 3B next season. Viciedo has a lot of upside, but he is not ready. However, a lot can change over the wunter and in ST

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 10:18 AM)
How can you see this kid play and think he is ready? No part of his game is major league ready yet. If he is too far behind the curve, you risk doing more harm than good by having him up here. Ozzie actually got this right by picking the match up's he put Dayan in for.

Let me put my quasi-defense of DV another way:

 

If the choice came down to 500 PA's of Viciedo at DH or 500 PA's of Kotsay at DH...I wouldn't hesitate to say that DV would give significantly better production next year at that spot. I'd expect him to start off slowly...and I'd expect to see his numbers start to creep up through May/June-ish, and I think he'd have a breakout month in either July or August.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 11:18 AM)
Let me put my quasi-defense of DV another way:

 

If the choice came down to 500 PA's of Viciedo at DH or 500 PA's of Kotsay at DH...I wouldn't hesitate to say that DV would give significantly better production next year at that spot. I'd expect him to start off slowly...and I'd expect to see his numbers start to creep up through May/June-ish, and I think he'd have a breakout month in either July or August.

 

The franchise will be better in the long run by getting Viciedo into a defensive position for 150 games next year. The only way he is going to get better is repetitions. Its the same idea with Sale next year. We could use him out of the pen for sure, but this team will be better in the long run by making him into a starter, and building his innings to stand up to a 180ish IP workload.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 12:41 PM)
The franchise will be better in the long run by getting Viciedo into a defensive position for 150 games next year. The only way he is going to get better is repetitions. Its the same idea with Sale next year. We could use him out of the pen for sure, but this team will be better in the long run by making him into a starter, and building his innings to stand up to a 180ish IP workload.

I agree that the franchise would be better in the long run with Sale and Viciedo in AAA next year for the majority of the year if all other things were equal.

 

However...things are not equal. The Sox have serious bullpen needs, the Sox's best player is a free agent, the Sox have 0 established major league catchers next year, and the Sox are in the realm where filling any of those needs by signing a type-A free agent would cost them their first round draft pick.

 

This is a classic KW dilemma. Somehow I think something surprising will come around to fill a couple of those spots and we'll wind up having a chance to make the right choice...but as it stands right now...Viciedo is my DH next year until proven otherwise.

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Morel better get a nice long look at 3rd for 2011 at ST. If this is his defense and power stroke with a torn labrum I'd love to see him 100%

Edited by Cali

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QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 12:16 PM)
Morel better get a nice long look at 3rd for 2011 at ST. If this is his defense and power stroke with a torn labrum I'd love to see him 100%

 

Has this been confirmed by anyone in the organization? I heard this was taken from his FB page but the more I see this kid the more I just don't believe it.

 

I would have to ask ptac but how can this kid play with a torn labrum, why would the Sox risk playing him? Maybe he's healthy after all?

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QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 03:48 PM)
Has this been confirmed by anyone in the organization? I heard this was taken from his FB page but the more I see this kid the more I just don't believe it.

 

I would have to ask ptac but how can this kid play with a torn labrum, why would the Sox risk playing him? Maybe he's healthy after all?

1. Its his non-throwing arm, I believe

 

2. It could be a very minor tear, which would explain their idea of not doing surgery right away

 

3. Depending on where on the labrum the tear is, certain movements may be painful, others not at all

 

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What about Viciedo in RF for 2011? His arm would fit there and he hopefully would be a an improvement over Quentin.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 04:38 PM)
What about Viciedo in RF for 2011? His arm would fit there and he hopefully would be a an improvement over Quentin.

 

I can't see Viciedo being very mobile or athletic enough for RF. Maybe if he drops 25 pounds.

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Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Better fielder by miles.

 

Better control of the strike zone.

 

Will hit for better average.

 

Looks like a better baserunner.

 

Until Viciedo learns to lay off bad pitches, he's got no shot to be a big league hitter.

 

and his best position is DH.

 

Another guy Kenny Williams overpaid to acquire.

 

 

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 07:28 PM)
Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Better fielder by miles.

 

Better control of the strike zone.

 

Will hit for better average.

 

Looks like a better baserunner.

 

Until Viciedo learns to lay off bad pitches, he's got no shot to be a big league hitter.

 

and his best position is DH.

 

Another guy Kenny Williams overpaid to acquire.

 

Viciedo is 21 and more than held his own against MLB pitching. He's got a vast amount of raw talent. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the White Sox signing Dayan Viciedo. I wish they'd do it far more often.

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 20, 2010 -> 07:28 PM)
Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Morel.

 

Better fielder by miles.

 

Better control of the strike zone.

 

Will hit for better average.

 

Looks like a better baserunner.

 

Until Viciedo learns to lay off bad pitches, he's got no shot to be a big league hitter.

 

and his best position is DH.

 

Another guy Kenny Williams overpaid to acquire.

 

As already stated, Viciedo is 21.

 

He also has the highest ceiling of any Sox prospect outside of Sale. And that ceiling is 40+ HR a season.

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