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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 4, 2012 -> 10:24 AM)
Shack, first off congrats on the job offers!

 

Second, what are the opportunities offered at this other company? Does the future look better there than where you currently are? I know you're on a huge Compliance project, and that could really be a project you can shine on. Would your current company be able to match or beat the new companies opportunities?

 

If not, and your salary is increased that much (plus it sounds like you have some good connections already there), than I would say go for it as long as you are comfortable putting your house up and stuff like that.

Thanks, Russ...

 

I actually just spoke with one of the lawyers I am good friends with here...she said they actually are planning on approaching me informally next week about joining legal...my work with them in Compliance has been very appreciated, since I actually know our trading business...and they want to potentially steal me...

 

Supposed to have dinner with them all next week...

 

Another curve ball....

 

As for the other offer...yes, it's basically a 50-100% increase in salary and I'd be moving to Oregon, one of my favorite areas of the country. It's one of the largest renewable energy developers/marketers in the world...it's a great company and they appear to have a solid future...it would be an excellent place for me to land for the next few years...

 

Thing is...this regulatory area of our industry is really growing rapidly right now, and there is a huge vacuum trying to be filled with very few candidates...I am one of the potential candidates due to my background in both law and trading...so part of me thinks I need to fill that niche as quickly as possible, and going back in to trading would entail walking away from that possibility.

Edited by iamshack

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QUOTE (iamshack @ May 4, 2012 -> 12:02 PM)
Thanks, Russ...

 

I actually just spoke with one of the lawyers I am good friends with here...she said they actually are planning on approaching me informally next week about joining legal...my work with them in Compliance has been very appreciated, since I actually know our trading business...and they want to potentially steal me...

 

Supposed to have dinner with them all next week...

 

Another curve ball....

 

As for the other offer...yes, it's basically a 50-100% increase in salary and I'd be moving to Oregon, one of my favorite areas of the country. It's one of the largest renewable energy developers/marketers in the world...it's a great company and they appear to have a solid future...it would be an excellent place for me to land for the next few years...

 

Thing is...this regulatory area of our industry is really growing rapidly right now, and there is a huge vacuum trying to be filled with very few candidates...I am one of the potential candidates due to my background in both law and trading...so part of me thinks I need to fill that niche as quickly as possible, and going back in to trading would entail walking away from that possibility.

 

As someone who has seen the changes in the securities and commodities trading industry since '98, I can safely opine that compliance in the way to go. If energies are anything like the rest of it, the process is going to get more and more automated as time goes on, and less and less people will be needed. That stuff is all going the way of the algo. I loved trading and the trading floors. I'd love to work in the crowds again, but those jobs are disappearing. They can be done by computers way better than any person could ever do them. Oversight is the better career choice.

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I think if you are going to leave, you tell them you are leaving. If they really want you to stay, they'll start dialogue trying to keep you and ask you what it would take, etc. I think if that happens, you're fine. You didn't ask for anything or tell them to match, they wanted you instead. I had a friend that did this, told them she was leaving, they said absolutely not, we want you here, what are they offering you, we'll make sure to compensate you. She said alright then, was kind of surprised, and she's still at the same place. And it hasn't been awkward.

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I think if you are going to leave, you tell them you are leaving. If they really want you to stay, they'll start dialogue trying to keep you and ask you what it would take, etc. I think if that happens, you're fine. You didn't ask for anything or tell them to match, they wanted you instead. I had a friend that did this, told them she was leaving, they said absolutely not, we want you here, what are they offering you, we'll make sure to compensate you. She said alright then, was kind of surprised, and she's still at the same place. And it hasn't been awkward.

 

This exactly.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:07 AM)
As someone who has seen the changes in the securities and commodities trading industry since '98, I can safely opine that compliance in the way to go. If energies are anything like the rest of it, the process is going to get more and more automated as time goes on, and less and less people will be needed. That stuff is all going the way of the algo. I loved trading and the trading floors. I'd love to work in the crowds again, but those jobs are disappearing. They can be done by computers way better than any person could ever do them. Oversight is the better career choice.

I appreciate the advice, ss...and I think that might happen down the road...but our transmission grid is in such rough shape, and it's only going to get worse with all this freaking wind coming online in the next several years, I think traders are going to be needed as much for keeping the lights on as they are to make money for marketing companies...I think the automated stuff is still quite a ways off in our industry.

 

With all that said, I am leaning on getting away from the trading...utility regulatory work is a niche I think I can fill because it's nearly void outside of Washington D.C...

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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 4, 2012 -> 12:45 PM)
This exactly.

 

Ehhh, no. I absolutely disagree.

 

Never accept counter offers...ever. Never ever.

 

What a counter offer of this sort truly is, when you break it down, is that you've always been worth Y, but they were fine paying you X so long as you had no where else to go. In my opinion, this is a b**** move. You should pay your employees what they are worth, and if they start at less than that, you should move them up too it at your first opportunity to do so. What this really means is that they were underpaying you and didn't care UNTIL you had a better offer elsewhere.

 

If you were worth Y to them the entire time, they should have been paying you Y...not wait until someone else offers you Y, and then jump in and say, "oh...we don't want to lose you, you're too valuable!" They should have thought about that before...and mostly likely did, but didn't care. The other company, meanwhile, was happy to give you what you were worth from the get go.

 

Counter offers also come with other implications:

 

* They will remember this, and so should you...at a future date it may lead them to say you have "no loyalty to anything other than money" and if bad times approach, you will find yourself high on the list of possible layoffs.

 

I never recommend anyone accept counter offers, unless they are "blow away" offers and/or offers that come with downside guarantees. I.E., they want to keep you so badly, they'll guarantee your salary even if you were to get laid off for a specified period of time.

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It depends on the situation and how close you are there. Didn't say you'd have to accept it, but I think the approach is the right approach. I don't think you go in there looking for it.

 

And obviously companies try to pay employees as little as possible. That's how it works. Same thing in sports. I get your logic, but that's the case whether there is a possible counter offer in play or not. Companies aren't trying to be fair and just pay people what they are worth.

Edited by IlliniKrush

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QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ May 4, 2012 -> 01:02 PM)
It depends on the situation and how close you are there. Didn't say you'd have to accept it, but I think the approach is the right approach. I don't think you go in there looking for it.

 

And obviously companies try to pay employees as little as possible. That's how it works. Same thing in sports. I get your logic, but that's the case whether there is a possible counter offer in play or not. Companies aren't trying to be fair and just pay people what they are worth.

 

Not all companies act like this. And, if a company chose to act that way, that's a risk they're assuming when a better offer eventually rolls along...now they get to lose a good employee because they were happy underpaying you.

 

I'm not saying companies are in the business of overpaying you, but they also shouldn't be in the business of underpaying you for the reason I just stated...if you're truly valuable to them, they should be in the business of paying you fairly and keeping you happy. Otherwise, it's all bulls***...and they just don't care.

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Over my time, I've found people are usually b****es to their companies for a few reasons:

 

* They underestimate their own value

* They are afraid of uncertainty of moving to a new company/new territory

* They convince themselves that they love what they do so much they don't care what they're paid

 

You have to be willing to take risks if you want to get ahead in the corporate/business world, and that includes the risk of moving elsewhere to advance.

 

The best way to view the job market is to view yourself as your own product. You represent , Inc. You're job is to make sure , Inc., is doing as well as it could be doing. Never undersell yourself...and that includes allowing a company to underpay you because "it's business". Damn right it's business...and in that case, it's bad business for , Inc.

Edited by Y2HH

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Thanks for all the advice, folks...and I think these kind of discussions are valuable for our network of people here...especially since a lot of us are young and trying to navigate a fairly crappy job market.

 

I ended up talking to one of the lawyers and basically telling her what's going on...she didn't make any promises but has some options she wants to firm up and present to me next week when she is in town.

 

At the very least it seems as though I will have an option to weigh as far as staying here. Whether it will be strong enough to stick around I don't know, but I know I need to be prepared to make a decision one way or the other and be committed to it.

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QUOTE (Y2HH @ May 4, 2012 -> 12:57 PM)
Ehhh, no. I absolutely disagree.

 

Never accept counter offers...ever. Never ever.

 

What a counter offer of this sort truly is, when you break it down, is that you've always been worth Y, but they were fine paying you X so long as you had no where else to go. In my opinion, this is a b**** move. You should pay your employees what they are worth, and if they start at less than that, you should move them up too it at your first opportunity to do so. What this really means is that they were underpaying you and didn't care UNTIL you had a better offer elsewhere.

 

If you were worth Y to them the entire time, they should have been paying you Y...not wait until someone else offers you Y, and then jump in and say, "oh...we don't want to lose you, you're too valuable!" They should have thought about that before...and mostly likely did, but didn't care. The other company, meanwhile, was happy to give you what you were worth from the get go.

 

Counter offers also come with other implications:

 

* They will remember this, and so should you...at a future date it may lead them to say you have "no loyalty to anything other than money" and if bad times approach, you will find yourself high on the list of possible layoffs.

 

I never recommend anyone accept counter offers, unless they are "blow away" offers and/or offers that come with downside guarantees. I.E., they want to keep you so badly, they'll guarantee your salary even if you were to get laid off for a specified period of time.

 

My friend recently started working where I work. When she resigned from her previous company, they offered her a raise and a promise to create a new position for her there within 6 months. She declined. Today she found out her old work is being sold soon and 30-45 people will be laid off in about a month.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:25 AM)
I'm experiencing a lot of interest right now because I seem to have a rare combination of skills/experience between this trading/legal background...

 

I should really PM you more often, ha. Definitely sounds like an interesting line of work.

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QUOTE (farmteam @ May 4, 2012 -> 04:42 PM)
I should really PM you more often, ha. Definitely sounds like an interesting line of work.

FERC investigates Market Manipulation

 

CFTC investigates Market Manipulation

 

Regulation in commodities and other energy sectors is a really hot niche right now. Google CFTC compliance or FERC compliance jobs and you'll see quite a few hits...most of the competent lawyers in this area are working for DC law firms as that is where the fed reg agencies are located, but marketing shops and utilities are dying for attorneys and compliance experts in these areas right now.

 

I sort of lucked out because I started in trading and just happen to have a law degree, but if you happen to have gotten involved in this area out of law school you can make a really nice living right now.

 

Definitely an area you might want to keep in the back of your head...

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Getting close to landing a job in Indy. Survived the screening call with HR, phone interview with potential boss, in-person interview with potential boss, and next week have final interview with potential boss and his boss.

 

Potential boss' boss had to cancel trip to Indy so my final interview is on hold for now. I'm kinda bummed.

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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 9, 2012 -> 07:03 AM)
Potential boss' boss had to cancel trip to Indy so my final interview is on hold for now. I'm kinda bummed.

Oh that's lame...hopefully they will reschedule quickly or just handle the process without him...

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An update on my situation...I went to the folks I have been working with in legal and explained to them my situation...that I was starting to get approached by other companies, that I was very confident I would have an offer in place very soon, but that I would like to stay here...but I would need my role revised and my compensation adjusted commensurately with the work I have been performing.

 

The lawyers went to their boss and he basically told them to do whatever they need to do to keep me.

 

So I am getting a new title, new direct reports, but get to continue to stay in the same office, and of course, a hefty raise...

 

Couldn't be happier that I gave them a chance to keep me here, as I am going to come out ahead of the other potential offer and avoid the hassle of moving and all that...

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QUOTE (iamshack @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:30 PM)
An update on my situation...I went to the folks I have been working with in legal and explained to them my situation...that I was starting to get approached by other companies, that I was very confident I would have an offer in place very soon, but that I would like to stay here...but I would need my role revised and my compensation adjusted commensurately with the work I have been performing.

 

The lawyers went to their boss and he basically told them to do whatever they need to do to keep me.

 

So I am getting a new title, new direct reports, but get to continue to stay in the same office, and of course, a hefty raise...

 

Couldn't be happier that I gave them a chance to keep me here, as I am going to come out ahead of the other potential offer and avoid the hassle of moving and all that...

Glad it all worked out!!

 

Want to sponsor a trip for Soxtalk out to Vegas to celebrate? Of course we'll wait for your new paychecks to cash first :D

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nice shack.

 

building the experience and staying at the same place isn't a bad move right now.

 

Trust me, it hurts to keep moving.

 

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Potential boss' boss had to cancel trip to Indy so my final interview is on hold for now. I'm kinda bummed.

 

Got a letter from their HR person today telling me that they were very impressed with me but business conditions have forced them to cancel the position.

 

Third time in the last six months I've been told the exact same thing by three different companies.

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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 16, 2012 -> 03:21 PM)
Got a letter from their HR person today telling me that they were very impressed with me but business conditions have forced them to cancel the position.

 

Third time in the last six months I've been told the exact same thing by three different companies.

Sorry to hear that, HH...keep your head up and keep trying...something good will come along soon...

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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 16, 2012 -> 03:21 PM)
Got a letter from their HR person today telling me that they were very impressed with me but business conditions have forced them to cancel the position.

 

Third time in the last six months I've been told the exact same thing by three different companies.

 

 

Trust me, I know how that feels. I got it a ton.

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Not sure who is reading this but I wondered if someone could chime in.

 

Nearly a year has passed since I graduated and since then, I have had three internships and one job that I consider an entry level position. I'm working in an in-house corporate PR position, something that I didn't go to school for and am vastly underpaid in. The company I work for has only given raises to those who are in sales, while I was told I would be given a raise after three months. Three months came and went and still, I have no raise.

 

I'm writing this because I am coming up on six months and wondered if it was time to start looking for something else. I have some ideas for grad school since having the MBA would be nice to have if I went to work in health care, or going to get a master's in something related to secondary or higher education might be more fulfilling. I am debt free and am willing to work in retail or something else because I am making the same money in my current job (so it's not like I'm taking a paycut).

 

I guess I have three questions for all of you are: How long should you stay at your first job, six months or one year? When did you decide it was time to go back to school and why did you? Would you make a leap to school or quit a current position without having another job lined up?

 

Thanks for your time.

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QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ May 19, 2012 -> 03:08 PM)
Not sure who is reading this but I wondered if someone could chime in.

 

Nearly a year has passed since I graduated and since then, I have had three internships and one job that I consider an entry level position. I'm working in an in-house corporate PR position, something that I didn't go to school for and am vastly underpaid in. The company I work for has only given raises to those who are in sales, while I was told I would be given a raise after three months. Three months came and went and still, I have no raise.

 

I'm writing this because I am coming up on six months and wondered if it was time to start looking for something else. I have some ideas for grad school since having the MBA would be nice to have if I went to work in health care, or going to get a master's in something related to secondary or higher education might be more fulfilling. I am debt free and am willing to work in retail or something else because I am making the same money in my current job (so it's not like I'm taking a paycut).

 

I guess I have three questions for all of you are: How long should you stay at your first job, six months or one year? When did you decide it was time to go back to school and why did you? Would you make a leap to school or quit a current position without having another job lined up?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

1) I stayed about 2 years

2) I started my MBA about 1 year into the above (#1) job

3) In this economy, no way I'd quit without having something lined up.

 

The really important thing, to me, is don't go back to school unless you have a specific goal/career in mind. I went back for my MBA because I knew I wanted to change careers, and I used the MBA to get knowledge and importantly, contacts/network to get a job in a different field.

 

Generally, it doesn't make sense to go back for an MBA so soon after undergrad. The content isn't so different. What makes an MBA valuable is the networking as well as the experience you (and your fellow classmates) bring to the table.

 

Use your debt free status and openness to different jobs to try something you think you might like. PR/healthcare/education are really vastly different fields. After my MBA, I started consulting which lead me to an offer to teach a class. I thought I'd hate teaching; I was pretty shy and a terrible public speaker...but it ended up being something I really enjoyed and became my career.

 

Short version is that you need to figure out what you want; if you don't know, start by trying something you think would be fun / cool to do.

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Appreciate the post, Disco72. There's some sound advice there that I will consider going forward.

 

I decided to try PR because I know a lot of business and journalism majors end up there since they have skills for it (persuasion, writing). To be honest, I'm not the sales type and don't see myself staying in PR for five years.

 

That said, I was thinking of what was growing - healthcare or just something I was considering higher education. Since I am not the best in the sciences (although A&P might be easier than I think), I don't think I could be a nurse, but I could work on the admin side of a hospital in...HR or purchasing, maybe. I may have changed my major from education in college, but I still think I would be a good guidance or admissions counselor. Seeing kids succeed and find the right fit for them would be satisfying.

 

What did you teach a class on? That sounds like something I really would be interested in. Maybe getting the MBA or something that would allow me to teach at a college would be ideal.

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QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ May 20, 2012 -> 10:22 AM)
Appreciate the post, Disco72. There's some sound advice there that I will consider going forward.

 

I decided to try PR because I know a lot of business and journalism majors end up there since they have skills for it (persuasion, writing). To be honest, I'm not the sales type and don't see myself staying in PR for five years.

 

That said, I was thinking of what was growing - healthcare or just something I was considering higher education. Since I am not the best in the sciences (although A&P might be easier than I think), I don't think I could be a nurse, but I could work on the admin side of a hospital in...HR or purchasing, maybe. I may have changed my major from education in college, but I still think I would be a good guidance or admissions counselor. Seeing kids succeed and find the right fit for them would be satisfying.

 

What did you teach a class on? That sounds like something I really would be interested in. Maybe getting the MBA or something that would allow me to teach at a college would be ideal.

 

I started out teaching international business because that's what I was doing for the consulting gig. Once I realized that it was what I wanted to do for my career, I got the PhD and have since taught Strategic Management and am currently teaching Entrepreneurship. It took awhile for me to figure out what I wanted for my career, and I really found it by accident.

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