Jump to content
ozzfest

Paul Konerko Re-Signs with White Sox

Recommended Posts

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:28 PM)
The extra $2.5 million this year probably just cost them JJ Putz.

Why? The Sox weren't willing to go to 2+ years with Putz. That 2nd year was important too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:28 PM)
The extra $2.5 million this year probably just cost them JJ Putz.

Doubt it. Putz was pretty good, but he signed for a couple of years, and what makes him such a sure thing? The thing that does concern me is KW's plan A seemed to come to fruition this season. In years past, and in retrospect, his plan Bs and Cs and Ds have seemed to work better than his plan As.

Edited by Dick Allen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:28 PM)
The extra $2.5 million this year probably just cost them JJ Putz.

possibly, but the Sox training staff saw him day in day out, maybe they didn't want to go two years at all, a lot of variables when and where guys sign. He could have wanted to close and possibly the Sox said nope, it's Thornton's job to lose.

Edited by SoxFan562004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:28 PM)
Whatever happened to Cowley's claim Konerko needed at least $15 million a year?

The same thing that happens to nearly all of his other claims. It was complete conjecture and utter crap.

Edited by Thunderbolt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:28 PM)
Whatever happened to Cowley's claim Konerko needed at least $15 million a year?

 

I'm sure Konerko was asking for it, just like Dunn wanted to start the bidding at $60M/4 years. Doesn't mean they'll get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:29 PM)
Why? The Sox weren't willing to go to 2+ years with Putz. That 2nd year was important too.

He wasn't demanding 2+ years from us. He wanted $5-6 million on a 1-year deal from us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:32 PM)
He wasn't demanding 2+ years from us. He wanted $5-6 million on a 1-year deal from us.

just a guess on my part, but that might mean he wanted to be the closer coming into ST so he can boost his value, possibly Sox not willing to do that.

 

Also, since splits are being used to show how awesome D-Lee will be next year, JJ's 2nd half was nothing to write about, his whip just about doubled to 1.5

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2010&t=p

Edited by SoxFan562004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:34 PM)
just a guess on my part, but that might mean he wanted to be the closer coming into ST so he can boost his value, possibly Sox not willing to do that

I'm pretty sure we were trying to sign him as the closer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, if anything, this proves that Jerry Reinsdorf isn't the cold-hearted business man that most people view him as, and the White Sox aren't in general. They are perhaps naive in resigning Konerko to the deal they did, because it assumes that he will continue being a similar player to that of the Paul Konerko from 2000-2010. And they are perhaps making both a financially and value-based irresponsible move, because Konerko's contract is worth more than anything Derrek Lee is going to get on the open market, they lose out on 2 draft picks, and they lose out on the $4 mill or whatever the difference may be between Lee and Konerko's deals.

 

This is a move made for both the quality of the player, the loyalty that Reinsdorf has for Konerko, and for the public relations of the Chicago White Sox. With regards to his quality, I think it's fairly safe to say that Paul Konerko is still a good hitter. I strongly doubt he's a .900+ OPS guy going forward, but he's a much better than average hitter, and I don't see that suddenly falling off the face of the planet. Beyond that, in the final year of his deal, he is being paid such a reasonable amount that it may make sense to begin to develop a 1B that year while he is still playing, which would significantly cut into his playing time - it really wouldn't surprise me to see Konerko end up with fewer than 400 PAs in 2013.

 

There is a level of loyalty that Reinsdorf shows to Konerko, and a lot of that has to do with Konerko being a long-time member of this organization, it has to do with him living near Reinsdorf in Arizona, and it has to do with him being a huge part in delivering the first World Series title in Chicago since World War I. There has always been a great deal of loyalty from Reinsdorf towards veteran players who have been very important figures in White Sox history, and those that show their loyalty towards the Sox will be shown that loyalty right back. It sends a message to those who play for the White Sox right now and the rest of the players in the league that, if you want to be a member of the Chicago White Sox, you will be, and you will be paid fairly. And, if you perform well during your tenure with the Chicago White Sox and act as a diplomat for the team, you will be rewarded with another contract, even if you may be a little older, and it may be above what you are actually worth.

 

Beyond that, and I think one of the most important aspects of this move, is the move with regard to the average fan of the Chicago White Sox. I don't think you will find any disagreement amongst the members of the front office that the move the Sox should have made, to maximize their value, would have been to bring in Derrek Lee, use the left over funds to sign a reliever, let Konerko walk and collect the two draft picks. What happens though when Paul Konerko goes to Arizona and hits 40 homers? And Derrek Lee hits .220 halfway through May and then goes down with a wrist injury? And the reliever does his best Scott Linebrink impression? And the two draft picks bust?

 

All of that is not likely to happen, but it's also not outside the realm of possibility. If that occurs, what happens to the average fan? Do you not believe that there will be some vehement dissidence towards the Chicago White Sox organization as a whole?

 

I am not trying to suggest that Paul Konerko is somehow the cause of the Nostradamian end of the world prophecies, merely that his presence means a lot to White Sox fans. I do not believe that if Konerko struggles, there would be as much of an outrage by the fan base. That needs to be taken into consideration as well.

 

---

 

In the end, I'm not going to pretend that I wanted Konerko back. As an economics student, I understand that you should try and maximize your intrinsic value, and I believed that signing Derrek Lee, using the excess money and signing a reliever, and gaining two draft picks was worth more than Paul Konerko. Some more accomplished businessmen than I disagreed. I'm not hurt or upset by the decision, and in fact can't disagree with it. It's still fairly likely that Paul Konerko will hit 75 homers over the next 3 years, and it's certainly possible that he will hit 100. He will get his 2000th hit, he will score his 1000th run, he will play in his 2000th game and it's entirely possible that he will get his 10th career stolen base and 10th career triple. The basic premise is that Paul Konerko has been a great player and almost certainly should continue to be a good player, and the White Sox have him for 3 more years.

 

 

 

 

(BTW, I don't believe it is a coincidence that the DBacks offered a deal that was 3/$30, and the value of Konerko's deal, excluding the deferred money, is 3/$30.5)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JR has always been a nice guy. It's a downside to him though too. There are certain guys he identifies and he likes and has a relationship with and he just won't let them go even if it's time to or if it means overpaying. He did this with the Bulls with Hinrich and Deng.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:36 PM)
I'm pretty sure we were trying to sign him as the closer.

You could also make the claim the Sox tendered Pena a contract instead of giving Putz an extra 2.5 million. I'm very happy Paulie is the Sox 1B instead of Pena for $2 million less in 2011. It will be interesting to see what DLee ultimately signs for.

 

Paulie is probably now overpaid, but so are a lot of guys and just about everyone who has signed so far. You rarely get a bargain unless you wait them out. In the future though, this signing isn't on KW. Its on JR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:17 PM)
Damn, that was a nice rebuttal. That's why I tend not to get too caught up in split stats. They're too easy to manipulate.

It's not a rebuttal at all. The two situations are not comparable.

 

You're telling me you shouldn't utilize the data that shows Lee has played well since coming back from his injury in trying to predict whether he will bounce back?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is definitely a good news. Signing Dunn would not have been an improvement if we have lost Konerko. Good to see JR coming thru again. Now on to adding to our bullpen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting how I didn't find a show on ESPN (ATH, PTI, First Take) to have a segment about the Dunn or Konerko signings, yet they had a segment about Carlos Pena today. Also, on ESPN's bottom line today I saw they mention "Dunn and Konerko were both listed among the worst defensive 1B in baseball according to advanced fielding metrics". LOL, ok cool guys, thanks for pointing out their flaws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the best bats in White Sox history. A class act guy. A poster boy for this era of White Sox teams. A plus ball picker with an at worst, still decent bat.

 

... and we get to see him etch his place in Sox history for 3 more seasons.

 

Economic value and player comparisions aside. The fan in me loves this move.

 

Glad to see you back captain. You belong here.

Edited by SmashROT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 06:07 PM)
Interesting how I didn't find a show on ESPN (ATH, PTI, First Take) to have a segment about the Dunn or Konerko signings, yet they had a segment about Carlos Pena today. Also, on ESPN's bottom line today I saw they mention "Dunn and Konerko were both listed among the worst defensive 1B in baseball according to advanced fielding metrics". LOL, ok cool guys, thanks for pointing out their flaws.

 

Oh, now they use advanced fielding metrics. But they sure didn't use them when on Derek Jeter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:03 PM)
Oh, now they use advanced fielding metrics. But they sure didn't use them when on Derek Jeter.

lol indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:45 PM)
I think, if anything, this proves that Jerry Reinsdorf isn't the cold-hearted business man that most people view him as, and the White Sox aren't in general. They are perhaps naive in resigning Konerko to the deal they did, because it assumes that he will continue being a similar player to that of the Paul Konerko from 2000-2010. And they are perhaps making both a financially and value-based irresponsible move, because Konerko's contract is worth more than anything Derrek Lee is going to get on the open market, they lose out on 2 draft picks, and they lose out on the $4 mill or whatever the difference may be between Lee and Konerko's deals.

 

This is a move made for both the quality of the player, the loyalty that Reinsdorf has for Konerko, and for the public relations of the Chicago White Sox. With regards to his quality, I think it's fairly safe to say that Paul Konerko is still a good hitter. I strongly doubt he's a .900+ OPS guy going forward, but he's a much better than average hitter, and I don't see that suddenly falling off the face of the planet. Beyond that, in the final year of his deal, he is being paid such a reasonable amount that it may make sense to begin to develop a 1B that year while he is still playing, which would significantly cut into his playing time - it really wouldn't surprise me to see Konerko end up with fewer than 400 PAs in 2013.

 

There is a level of loyalty that Reinsdorf shows to Konerko, and a lot of that has to do with Konerko being a long-time member of this organization, it has to do with him living near Reinsdorf in Arizona, and it has to do with him being a huge part in delivering the first World Series title in Chicago since World War I. There has always been a great deal of loyalty from Reinsdorf towards veteran players who have been very important figures in White Sox history, and those that show their loyalty towards the Sox will be shown that loyalty right back. It sends a message to those who play for the White Sox right now and the rest of the players in the league that, if you want to be a member of the Chicago White Sox, you will be, and you will be paid fairly. And, if you perform well during your tenure with the Chicago White Sox and act as a diplomat for the team, you will be rewarded with another contract, even if you may be a little older, and it may be above what you are actually worth.

 

Beyond that, and I think one of the most important aspects of this move, is the move with regard to the average fan of the Chicago White Sox. I don't think you will find any disagreement amongst the members of the front office that the move the Sox should have made, to maximize their value, would have been to bring in Derrek Lee, use the left over funds to sign a reliever, let Konerko walk and collect the two draft picks. What happens though when Paul Konerko goes to Arizona and hits 40 homers? And Derrek Lee hits .220 halfway through May and then goes down with a wrist injury? And the reliever does his best Scott Linebrink impression? And the two draft picks bust?

 

All of that is not likely to happen, but it's also not outside the realm of possibility. If that occurs, what happens to the average fan? Do you not believe that there will be some vehement dissidence towards the Chicago White Sox organization as a whole?

 

I am not trying to suggest that Paul Konerko is somehow the cause of the Nostradamian end of the world prophecies, merely that his presence means a lot to White Sox fans. I do not believe that if Konerko struggles, there would be as much of an outrage by the fan base. That needs to be taken into consideration as well.

 

---

 

In the end, I'm not going to pretend that I wanted Konerko back. As an economics student, I understand that you should try and maximize your intrinsic value, and I believed that signing Derrek Lee, using the excess money and signing a reliever, and gaining two draft picks was worth more than Paul Konerko. Some more accomplished businessmen than I disagreed. I'm not hurt or upset by the decision, and in fact can't disagree with it. It's still fairly likely that Paul Konerko will hit 75 homers over the next 3 years, and it's certainly possible that he will hit 100. He will get his 2000th hit, he will score his 1000th run, he will play in his 2000th game and it's entirely possible that he will get his 10th career stolen base and 10th career triple. The basic premise is that Paul Konerko has been a great player and almost certainly should continue to be a good player, and the White Sox have him for 3 more years.

 

 

 

 

(BTW, I don't believe it is a coincidence that the DBacks offered a deal that was 3/$30, and the value of Konerko's deal, excluding the deferred money, is 3/$30.5)

 

Wite, I agree with a lot of this. However, I also think at their core, White Sox fans care most about the ballclub winning another World Series Championship. PK is one of the most beloved, if not the most beloved White Sox player of this generation. But I think even the most sentimental fan would rather win a World Series Championship without PK than not win one with PK. And that should have been the ultimate goal - doing everything possible to win another WS Championship - rather than trying to win another WS Championship with Paul Konerko, which is apparently what is taking place.

 

I'm just not sure that we have a margin for error here.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:07 AM)
Interesting how I didn't find a show on ESPN (ATH, PTI, First Take) to have a segment about the Dunn or Konerko signings, yet they had a segment about Carlos Pena today. Also, on ESPN's bottom line today I saw they mention "Dunn and Konerko were both listed among the worst defensive 1B in baseball according to advanced fielding metrics". LOL, ok cool guys, thanks for pointing out their flaws.

 

to be fair, tirico had a nice segment on the sox during his 5 p.m. radio spot. essentially lauded the kw for a great offseason, declared the sox the division favorite and maybe more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 06:07 PM)
Interesting how I didn't find a show on ESPN (ATH, PTI, First Take) to have a segment about the Dunn or Konerko signings, yet they had a segment about Carlos Pena today. Also, on ESPN's bottom line today I saw they mention "Dunn and Konerko were both listed among the worst defensive 1B in baseball according to advanced fielding metrics". LOL, ok cool guys, thanks for pointing out their flaws.

I saw that. I just rolled my eyes. When the Sox signed Dunn, their top stories were Jeter talking to the Yankees again and the 2024 World Cup being played in Qatar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×