Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 05:41 AM) I definitely see Dayan starting the year in AAA and getting time in the OF. Depending on how Quentin, Dayan and the sox do, it could then lead to trading Carlos. The only way the sox would trade Carlos in season would be if they were out of it, Dayan showed ability in the OF, and Carlos could bring a decent return. But I'm not sure if Dayan could better Carlos' defense. I don't see a Rios, Dayan and Carlos OF in 2012. One of the two won't be with the sox after 2011. Honestly, I don't see why we couldn't have an outfield of Quentin-Rios-Viciedo in 2012. Pierre is a free agent after this year, so we should have an opening in the outfield. Viciedo will probably be the only guy in our minor league system ready to take that spot, assuming he can develop enough defensively this year. I'd put Viciedo in RF (where I'd have him playing everyday in AAA this year) and then move Quentin back to LF. I know that outfield won't be great defensively, but the increase offensivley should be significant going from Pierre to Viciedo. If Teahen is still on our roster, we can use him against tough righties, which would help Viciedo in his first season as a regular. I just don't think trading Quentin after the 2011 season will make a lot of sense. To build any trade value, he's going to need to have a big year, since he'll only have one year left on his contract and will be a third-year arbitration player. If that's the case, I'd probably hold on to him for 2012 and hope he earns type A compensation. That way you'd have the choice of signing him long-term (which would still be too risky IMO) or getting two picks. Plus Jared Mitchell should (key word should) be ready by then, so you'll have in-house replacement if necessary. I just doubt you're going to get more than two draft picks if you trade him after the 2011 season. Also, this could all be meaningless if Quentin sucks in 2011, because he then becomes non-tender candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 St. Louis may need a 1B next season, maybe they work out a deal to get Rasmus next winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) There was really no other alternative save for trading him. Dayan is not a major league 3B. Never was. ^^^^ this. He's really to Carlos Leeish and LF is where he should be IMO. I do agree with the feeling of jacking him all over the place. He's the Danieal Manning of the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) I know it's still early and he still has development time...but compare this reality to the hypothetical situation where we put him in RF immediately upon getting to AA. Instead of 2 years of bouncing between 1b and 3b, he could have had 2 years already playing RF, and by the end of this year, 3 years working on his RF defense. He could have been ready to replace Carlos Quentin this year if he got hurt, or next year if he's DFA'd. Instead, we need him to almost start from scratch. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but still. Oh come on Balta, you're going to fault the White Sox for not playing Viciedo in RF two years ago, when Quentin and Dye were coming off .965 and .885 OPS seasons respectively? At that time, they had what appeared to be a young, superstar type player under team control for four more seasons who they thought they could move to RF eventually. Dye was still under contract for another year and could possibly last more. When it appeared that Dye was done in 2009, they went out and traded for another outfielder signed to a long-term deal in Rios. They also spent their first round pick on a college outfielder, who I'm sure they hoped would be in the major-league mix sooner had he not gotten injured. All things considered, outfield wasn't a huge need for the White Sox at that time. Meanwhile, you've got Thome a free agent after the 2009 season and Konerko after the 2010 season. The team then trades it's only other possible 1B/DH option in Brandon Allen during the 2009 season. You're third baseman to start 2009 is Josh Fields and your best 3B prospect is Brent Morel who's in low A. In fact, 3B was so bad you replace Fields with a rookie SS and then eventually trade for Mark Teahen. Clearly, 1B/DH and 3B were bigger concerns for the organization than the OF was at the time. Had the organization knew it would sign Dunn and Konerko long-term and that Morel would have such a rapid rise to the majors, I'm sure they would have considered playing him in the OF earlier. Unfortunately, there would have been no way to know that and therefore, it's wrong to fault them for how they handled Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) ^^^^ this. He's really to Carlos Leeish and LF is where he should be IMO. I do agree with the feeling of jacking him all over the place. He's the Danieal Manning of the White Sox. Can someone please tell me why you're supposed to put your weaker OF in LF? I get that you'd put your outfielder with the weakest arm in LF, but how does a lack of range or poor reads improve by being in LF rather than RF? The only thing I can think of is that less balls get hit to LF, but I don't know if that's the case. I would think that since there are so many more right-handed hitters that more balls would actually go to LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Needed to be done. Give him some time and I really see no reason why he can't be decent in the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) Oh come on Balta, you're going to fault the White Sox for not playing Viciedo in RF two years ago, when Quentin and Dye were coming off .965 and .885 OPS seasons respectively? At that time, they had what appeared to be a young, superstar type player under team control for four more seasons who they thought they could move to RF eventually. Dye was still under contract for another year and could possibly last more. When it appeared that Dye was done in 2009, they went out and traded for another outfielder signed to a long-term deal in Rios. They also spent their first round pick on a college outfielder, who I'm sure they hoped would be in the major-league mix sooner had he not gotten injured. All things considered, outfield wasn't a huge need for the White Sox at that time. Meanwhile, you've got Thome a free agent after the 2009 season and Konerko after the 2010 season. The team then trades it's only other possible 1B/DH option in Brandon Allen during the 2009 season. You're third baseman to start 2009 is Josh Fields and your best 3B prospect is Brent Morel who's in low A. In fact, 3B was so bad you replace Fields with a rookie SS and then eventually trade for Mark Teahen. Clearly, 1B/DH and 3B were bigger concerns for the organization than the OF was at the time. Had the organization knew it would sign Dunn and Konerko long-term and that Morel would have such a rapid rise to the majors, I'm sure they would have considered playing him in the OF earlier. Unfortunately, there would have been no way to know that and therefore, it's wrong to fault them for how they handled Viciedo. I know, I know, I just hope you're seeing my side a little here. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to admit...he might well be starting on the big league team this year if we'd committed to the right position for him 2 years ago and not moved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) I know, I know, I just hope you're seeing my side a little here. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to admit...he might well be starting on the big league team this year if we'd committed to the right position for him 2 years ago and not moved him. I do see your point. His bat is pretty much major league ready, but now he needs more time to develop defensively. Who knows if or how long that will take? I just hope he can eventually make it in LF or RF, because we don't have enough potential impact bats in the system to waste his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. Doesn't he have a strong arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. For what? How does trading Viciedo right now help us this season? Edited January 22, 2011 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) Doesn't he have a strong arm? Has a cannon. (of course, arm strength is one thing, arm accuracy is another). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Reminds me of Carlos Lee, in that he was a third baseman, and moving to the outfield. Also the build and bat... Maybe next year, he can take LF, Mitchell in CF, and Rios in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (SEALgep @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) Reminds me of Carlos Lee, in that he was a third baseman, and moving to the outfield. Also the build and bat... Maybe next year, he can take LF, Mitchell in CF, and Rios in RF. I don't know, with Dayan's arm, if he shows he can be good in RF, I'd leave him there and put Mitchell (if he's ready) in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 06:56 PM) I don't know, with Dayan's arm, if he shows he can be good in RF, I'd leave him there and put Mitchell (if he's ready) in LF. Mitchell is no where close to ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 10:27 AM) If you don't have Morel or even Teahen, then he would've done fine. I suppose if your definition of fine is the worst defensive 3b in the league then yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 11:05 PM) I suppose if your definition of fine is the worst defensive 3b in the league then yes If you watched Teahen last year you'd know that Viciedo wouldn't be the worst 3b in the league if he played there full time, not close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) Mitchell is no where close to ready. I meant next year, if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. Why would you trade somebody who is young, cheap, and can hit? Unless you can get something insane like Rasmus in return. Going forward, I'll take Viciedo at one of the corner outfield positions over Quentin or Pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't see a problem with trying to make Dayan as versatile as they can. Especially with the defensive reputation his infield play has given him. The organization is just trying to find a way to give him as many at-bats as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've never gotten the impression the kid has the mobility for the OF, but I guess we will see. It is his only chance at playing time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) I've never gotten the impression the kid has the mobility for the OF, but I guess we will see. It is his only chance at playing time now. well he lost weight last year and i assume/hope he'll come into this season even slimmer, that'll help with mobility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I am sick and tired of seeing this organization trying to force players into defensive positions where below average is the best case scenario/goal. Dayan is a First Basemen or a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 06:55 PM) I am sick and tired of seeing this organization trying to force players into defensive positions where below average is the best case scenario/goal. Dayan is a First Basemen or a DH. Examples? Maybe the Bears game sucked my brain dry, but I'm having a hard time coming up with examples of the Sox moving guys to worse positions. If anything, the Sox have moved guys to help them succeed, not put them in a position to be terrible defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) I am sick and tired of seeing this organization trying to force players into defensive positions where below average is the best case scenario/goal. Dayan is a First Basemen or a DH. He will be only 25 when Paulie's deal is up. He can play 1B then if he is bad in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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