Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 07:06 PM) Examples? Maybe the Bears game sucked my brain dry, but I'm having a hard time coming up with examples of the Sox moving guys to worse positions. If anything, the Sox have moved guys to help them succeed, not put them in a position to be terrible defenders. "Mark Kotsay to starting DH". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 08:08 PM) "Mark Kotsay to starting DH". Sure, if we change the question, there are plenty of examples! The OP stated that the Sox keep changing defensive players to positions that make them worse defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 08:50 PM) Sure, if we change the question, there are plenty of examples! The OP stated that the Sox keep changing defensive players to positions that make them worse defenders. Well, to give more serious answers, Carlos Quentin to RF was associated with him getting a lot worse. But there's some injury stuff going on there. Beckham bounced around a lot already. Mark Teahen put anywhere was a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 08:52 PM) Well, to give more serious answers, Carlos Quentin to RF was associated with him getting a lot worse. But there's some injury stuff going on there. Beckham bounced around a lot already. Mark Teahen put anywhere was a bad idea. All true. However, Quentin was regarded as a decent RFer and an improvement over Dye, even if it turned out not to be the case (injuries, partially, as you acknowledge). Beckham was never viewed as an above average SS, so shifting him to less intense defensive positions did not make him a worse defender, nor make the Sox worse off defensively. Teahen didn't play anywhere with the Sox that the Royals didn't play him, and when given a better defensive alternative, Ozzie stopped playing Teahen at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 07:52 PM) Well, to give more serious answers, Carlos Quentin to RF was associated with him getting a lot worse. But there's some injury stuff going on there. Beckham bounced around a lot already. Mark Teahen put anywhere was a bad idea. That is totally in retrospect. IIRC the opinion surrounding TCQ to RF was nearly unanimously for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnerId=rss_cws BOOM. Carlos Lee all over again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 01:18 AM) Should have done this when he was with the Barons. In fact, I was pimpin that thought back then when I read Cubano's report about him playing there in Cuba (though sparingly) cause I loved what I read (and now seen) about his arm with average range. I think the plan has been to have him play 1B/DH... then Dunn showed up and Konerko stayed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) Carlos Lee all over again If Dayan ends up like Carlos, I will be thrilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) I am sick and tired of seeing this organization trying to force players into defensive positions where below average is the best case scenario/goal. Dayan is a First Basemen or a DH. Viciedo was never going to be a gold glover to begin with. Increasing his versatility to get that bat into the lineup is the ultimate objective here. If anything, they are moving him because they already have a player at one of the positions he plays who is good defensively and has a pretty good bat to boot. So settle down and live with him in the outfield for a while. He's going to be below average wherever he plays on the field, so if you can get his bat into the lineup, and he doesn't kill you defensively, you should be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I want his bat on the opening day roster because he murders left handers so anything that keeps him there I am in favor . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 10:58 PM) I want his bat on the opening day roster because he murders left handers so anything that keeps him there I am in favor . Me too. Is there any way possible that he could beat out Juan Pierre for Left Field? LA benched him for twice the price so money isn't an issue. That would give us something like: Rios Beckham Dunn PK Quentin Pierzynski Morel Ramirez Viciedo or some other way at the bottom to have a deadly turnover after the 1st inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Sooo....if Viciedo can at least manage to be acceptable in the OF, he is essentially a younger, better , cheaper version of Mark Teahen. We should just trade him for a bucket of balls so we can get Viciedo on this team as soon as possible. Edited January 24, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 No, Viciedo has no chance of overtaking Juan Pierre for left field, and no, he is not going to take over Teahen's job, and I strongly doubt that he will be on the opening day roster, though that is at least plausible. Most indications are that Viciedo is nowhere close to being capable defensively in the outfield, and he's not going to suddenly be capable through Spring Training. He needs tons of live action in the outfield, so that is what he will get in AAA this year. If a bat is needed at some point during the season, as opposed to a mere live body who can play a few positions, he will probably be the first called up. As of right now, the White Sox want to get Viciedo's bat into the lineup, but they have all 3 spots that he is capable of playing locked up for 3 years at the very minimum. The best way to get his bat into play is to put him in the outfield. He has to be able to play the outfield before he can be an outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:22 AM) No, Viciedo has no chance of overtaking Juan Pierre for left field, and no, he is not going to take over Teahen's job, and I strongly doubt that he will be on the opening day roster, though that is at least plausible. Most indications are that Viciedo is nowhere close to being capable defensively in the outfield, and he's not going to suddenly be capable through Spring Training. He needs tons of live action in the outfield, so that is what he will get in AAA this year. If a bat is needed at some point during the season, as opposed to a mere live body who can play a few positions, he will probably be the first called up. As of right now, the White Sox want to get Viciedo's bat into the lineup, but they have all 3 spots that he is capable of playing locked up for 3 years at the very minimum. The best way to get his bat into play is to put him in the outfield. He has to be able to play the outfield before he can be an outfielder. Exactly. If Viciedo replaces anyone on this roster, it will be Quentin if he performs badly again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) Carlos Lee all over again You're saying that as a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) Me too. Is there any way possible that he could beat out Juan Pierre for Left Field? LA benched him for twice the price so money isn't an issue. That would give us something like: Rios Beckham Dunn PK Quentin Pierzynski Morel Ramirez Viciedo or some other way at the bottom to have a deadly turnover after the 1st inning. Unfortunately Pierre is god-like to Ozzie , one last remnant of his run and shoot offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 No, Viciedo has no chance of overtaking Juan Pierre for left field, and no, he is not going to take over Teahen's job, and I strongly doubt that he will be on the opening day roster, though that is at least plausible. Most indications are that Viciedo is nowhere close to being capable defensively in the outfield, and he's not going to suddenly be capable through Spring Training. He needs tons of live action in the outfield, so that is what he will get in AAA this year. If a bat is needed at some point during the season, as opposed to a mere live body who can play a few positions, he will probably be the first called up. As of right now, the White Sox want to get Viciedo's bat into the lineup, but they have all 3 spots that he is capable of playing locked up for 3 years at the very minimum. The best way to get his bat into play is to put him in the outfield. He has to be able to play the outfield before he can be an outfielder. It´s unfortunate he has not been able to develop his offensive as quickly as the hype had made it out to be. He can be solid but for what we paid we have not seen a return at all. Well 2 years left before the ARB kicks in so let´s hope this year he does something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:02 PM) Unfortunately Pierre is god-like to Ozzie , one last remnant of his run and shoot offense. Despite his arm, he's a pretty damn good lf too. I know the popular thing around here is to hate on Juan Pierre and I'm certainly not a huge fan of his but he actually is decently important considering him and Rios have to cover a lot of freakin ground to make up for Q's ineptness out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 12:16 AM) It´s unfortunate he has not been able to develop his offensive as quickly as the hype had made it out to be. He can be solid but for what we paid we have not seen a return at all. Well 2 years left before the ARB kicks in so let´s hope this year he does something. He's already made a ton of strides from the beginning of his first season, he's still got a long way to go but he's 21 for crying out loud, give him some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) It´s unfortunate he has not been able to develop his offensive as quickly as the hype had made it out to be. He can be solid but for what we paid we have not seen a return at all. Well 2 years left before the ARB kicks in so let´s hope this year he does something. He showed great bat speed, great power, and solid contact skills. He needs to work on working a count, but as mentioned, he's 21. Guys that make huge impacts in the majors at the age of 21 are the types of players who can develop into Hall of Fame players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 02:16 AM) It´s unfortunate he has not been able to develop his offensive as quickly as the hype had made it out to be. He can be solid but for what we paid we have not seen a return at all. Well 2 years left before the ARB kicks in so let´s hope this year he does something. We signed him at the age of, what, 19? I'm not sure what you were expecting at the age of 21 other than a burgeoning player fighting for a major league roster spot. He still has plenty of work to do but I don't think we signed him with the expectation of ANY immediate return. At least, those weren't my expectations. It just takes a lot of money to sign someone with his potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) Despite his arm, he's a pretty damn good lf too. I know the popular thing around here is to hate on Juan Pierre and I'm certainly not a huge fan of his but he actually is decently important considering him and Rios have to cover a lot of freakin ground to make up for Q's ineptness out there. I just feel about him the way you do. I don't hate on any Sox player. He's a good defender and came through a decent amount in RBI situations. His arm is not good. He bunts way too often for the amount of success he has at it. No power at all ,not even many doubles . Decent base stealer but he's declining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) I just feel about him the way you do. I don't hate on any Sox player. He's a good defender and came through a decent amount in RBI situations. His arm is not good. He bunts way too often for the amount of success he has at it. No power at all ,not even many doubles . Decent base stealer but he's declining. Last 5 years 2006: 162 G 58 SB 20 CS 74.3 SB% 2007: 162 G 64 SB 15 CS 81.0 SB% 2008: 119 G 40 SB 12 CS 76.9 SB% 2009: 145 G 30 SB 12 CS 71.4 SB% 2010: 160 G 68 SB 18 CS 79.1 SB% Obviously he was not quite a full time player in 2008/2009 but the bolded of what you say doesn't really appear to be true. He had the most stolen bases of his career last year and stole at one of the higher rates of his career as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) Last 5 years 2006: 162 G 58 SB 20 CS 74.3 SB% 2007: 162 G 64 SB 15 CS 81.0 SB% 2008: 119 G 40 SB 12 CS 76.9 SB% 2009: 145 G 30 SB 12 CS 71.4 SB% 2010: 160 G 68 SB 18 CS 79.1 SB% Obviously he was not quite a full time player in 2008/2009 but the bolded of what you say doesn't really appear to be true. He had the most stolen bases of his career last year and stole at one of the higher rates of his career as well. Sweet. Does he have any other stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) Sweet. Does he have any other stats? As i said, I was responding to a specific comment the previous poster made. Yay for reading comprehension! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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