DetroitSoxDog Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 WHITE SOX RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 QUOTE (MotownSox @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 06:34 PM) WHITE SOX RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you really need to drink ANOTHER Jolt Cola? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:08 AM) Talk radio hasn't talked about Greg Walker? Are you serious? That's not what I said. Talk radio and message boards are where he gets ripped. You don't see anyone in baseball ripping him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) That's not what I said. Talk radio and message boards are where he gets ripped. You don't see anyone in baseball ripping him. How often do people in baseball rip each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) How often do people in baseball rip each other? See: Guillen, Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) How often do people in baseball rip each other? So the opinions on this board and talk radio is what guys like KW should be checking out so he'll know his next move? Believe me, if Walker was 1% as bad as apparently you and a lot of others feel, he would have been ripped by now. I even believe you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) So the opinions on this board and talk radio is what guys like KW should be checking out so he'll know his next move? Believe me, if Walker was 1% as bad as apparently you and a lot of others feel, he would have been ripped by now. I even believe you know that. He has been ripped plenty in the media. If he was as good as you think he is, someone in baseball outside of the Sox organization would have come to his defense by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) He has been ripped plenty in the media. If he was as good as you think he is, someone in baseball outside of the Sox organization would have come to his defense by now. When does that happen? And if you get ripped by the media, not even the beat writers, but the talk show hosts, there's meaning to that? OMG. On second thought, you are correct. If Dan McNeil or Terry Boers or Dan Bernstein say you are awful, they are experts. They would know. Edited September 21, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) When does that happen? And if you get ripped by the media, not even the beat writers, but the talk show hosts, there's meaning to that? OMG. More meaning than the beat writers. They are pretty much spineless in this town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 07:58 PM) More meaning than the beat writers. They are pretty much spineless in this town. Guys in the studio aren't spineless? Do they ever even go to the games? So it is your opinion that Greg Walker is a bad hitting coach, correct? Is it also your opinion that a replacement will improve the Sox offense automatically? Instead of just trying to pick a fight with me, show me where you stand. Edited September 21, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) Guys in the studio aren't spineless? Do they ever even go to the games? So it is your opinion that Greg Walker is a bad hitting coach, correct? Is it also your opinion that a replacement will improve the Sox offense automatically? Instead of just trying to pick a fight with me, show me where you stand. At this point why wouldn't you change the hitting coach? This obviously isn't working, for whatever reason. But you go on picking on Don Cooper to prove your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) At this point why wouldn't you change the hitting coach? This obviously isn't working, for whatever reason. But you go on picking on Don Cooper to prove your point. Answer the question, is Greg Walker the awful hitting coach talk radio and Sox message boards make him out to be? Quit dancing around it. Should he be fired because he's bad at his job? And I'm joking when I say Cooper deserves to be fired, but if he were held to the same standards Walker is, and Walker has 3 underperformers, Dunn, Rios and Beckham, how much of that is Walker's fault,Cooper wouldn't be this pitching coach God he's made out to be. Edited September 21, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:08 PM) Answer the question, is Greg Walker the awful hitting coach talk radio and Sox message boards make him out to be? Quit dancing around it. Should he be fired because he's bad at his job? Yes. Fire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:08 PM) Answer the question, is Greg Walker the awful hitting coach talk radio and Sox message boards make him out to be? Quit dancing around it. Should he be fired because he's bad at his job? Yes. His players regularly fail. His record speaks for itself. Same reason Ozzie must go. Only fair way to evaluate is in aggregate: he's had some successes but simply not enough. He has failed at his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:10 PM) Yes. His players regularly fail. His record speaks for itself. Same reason Ozzie must go. Only fair way to evaluate is in aggregate: he's had some successes but simply not enough. He has failed at his job. But Cooper failed as much, if not more...apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:18 PM) But Cooper failed as much, if not more...apparently. If just once someone blamed Cooper and was actually serious about it, when a pitcher sucked like they blame Walker when a hitter sucked, I'd stop my crusade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) If just once someone blamed Cooper and was actually serious about it, when a pitcher sucked like they blame Walker when a hitter sucked, I'd stop my crusade. You gonna hold your breath too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) If just once someone blamed Cooper and was actually serious about it, when a pitcher sucked like they blame Walker when a hitter sucked, I'd stop my crusade. I'm guessing it's mostly due to Cooper's reputation of taking a guy that formerly underachieved and turning him into a legitimate pitcher. With Walker, the reverse seems to happen or there is little improvement, if any at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) If just once someone blamed Cooper and was actually serious about it, when a pitcher sucked like they blame Walker when a hitter sucked, I'd stop my crusade. How often do pitchers come to Chicago and get worse? How often do we call a left guy up, give him time to develop, and wind up with nothing? I literally can't think of a case since the 2007 bullpen with aardsma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) I'm guessing it's mostly due to Cooper's reputation of taking a guy that formerly underachieved and turning him into a legitimate pitcher. With Walker, the reverse seems to happen or there is little improvement, if any at all. That's the perception, its not the reality. Thome and Dye hit pretty well with Sox. Swisher was a bust, but its well documented he didn't work with Walker. Dunn has sucked. Rios has sucked except for the first half last year. Beckham has had his moments, but has been a dissappointment. Everyone else seems to me to pretty much have hit what you would have expected if not better over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) How often do pitchers come to Chicago and get worse? How often do we call a left guy up, give him time to develop, and wind up with nothing? I literally can't think of a case since the 2007 bullpen with aardsma. Javy Vazquez, Daniel Hudson, Mike MacDougal, Scott Linebrink, Clayton Richard, Jake Peavy, Nick Massett, Andy Sisco, David Riske, Horatio Ramirez, Tony Pena, Ehren Wasserman to name a few. Some not so dramatic but still not exactly pitching coach genius. Players fail. White Sox fans have it out for Walker which is a shame because he is probably as proud to be a White Sox as anyone. Edited September 21, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) Javy Vazquez, Daniel Hudson, Mike MacDougal, Scott Linebrink, Clayton Richard, Jake Peavy, Nick Massett, Andy Sisco, David Riske, Horatio Ramirez to name a few. Some not so dramatic but still not exactly pitching coach genius. Players fail. White Sox fans have it out for Walker which is a shame because he is probably as proud to be a White Sox as anyone. Look at that list. Hudson had no chance to get better here. Vazquez had a great 2007 and was decent in 2 other years. Richard was made by Cooper out of a non prospect. MMac was great in 06 and never matched that again. Hora io Freaking Ramirez? Gmab, that's like blaming walker for Kotsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Dick, curious what your thoughts are on this article from a couple weeks ago. I quoted a big chunk of it in one of our threads. Pay particular attention to section "no. 3". Edited September 21, 2011 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:44 PM) Look at that list. Hudson had no chance to get better here. Vazquez had a great 2007 and was decent in 2 other years. Richard was made by Cooper out of a non prospect. MMac was great in 06 and never matched that again. Hora io Freaking Ramirez? Gmab, that's like blaming walker for Kotsay. Excuses all around. Look at Vazquez the year after he left the Sox. His two "decent years were 4.84 and 4.67. There's obviously a little difference in decent pitching seasons vs. decent offensive seasons in your mind. If a hitter was hitting like Hudson was pitching when he was traded and started hitting like Hudson started pitching afterwards, you can't tell me Walker wouldn't have been blasted. The bottom line is you could only remember one. I mentioned 8 or 9 off the top of my head. There are plenty of pitching failures. It happens. Even Floyd and Danks are above the league average ERA this year. No one blames Cooper, and its most likely not is fault, just like its most likely not Walker's fault Dunn has been as bad as he's been, or Rios is sleepwalking through 2011 or Beckham has been struggling. Are they blaming Boston's hitting coach for Carl Crawford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Dick, curious what your thoughts are on this article from a couple weeks ago. I quoted a big chunk of it in one of our threads. Pay particular attention to section "no. 3". I did read that, and its funny how that works. Depending on the argument BABIP, if its low someone will say it shows unluckiness. Now they use it as a reason to fire the hitting coach. I don't know what that would have to do with Walker. Did you read what Carlton Fisk said in that article. It was up top you have to click on it. He played major league baseball, I'd think he would have a better idea of hitting coaches than Dan Bernstein no matter what SS2K5 says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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