Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) Well, Flowers will be in Chicago a good long while. It might be roster expansion time before Castro is back anyway, so, he may be up here the rest of the season. So... do you give Lucy full time play, or give Phegley a chance to challenge himself? Here's one other option for consideration. Full selloff...including moving of the expensive (next year) but hitting well (this year) catcher. If you don't get a major league catcher back as a return in the selloff, then Flowers/Phegley catch to finish out the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 07:45 AM) That's an aggressive move upwards for Phegley. Has he been hitting well enough to belong in AAA? Got to see what you have in him for quite a reach of a pick (depending who you ask) at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 10:42 AM) Got to see what you have in him for quite a reach of a pick (depending who you ask) at the time. Given how much injury time he took last year, I'm just not sure that now is the time to "See what we have in him". I start saying that when I'm convinced there's nothing more that a kid can learn at that level (see: Viciedo, Dayan). Phegley's pushed up so rapidly this year that I'd be easily convinced there's more he can learn at AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:45 AM) Given how much injury time he took last year, I'm just not sure that now is the time to "See what we have in him". I start saying that when I'm convinced there's nothing more that a kid can learn at that level (see: Viciedo, Dayan). Phegley's pushed up so rapidly this year that I'd be easily convinced there's more he can learn at AA. I just don't think the sox brass is as high on him as they were with say... Flowers at the time (though I can be wrong obviously). He really hasn't hit studly at any particular level since he was drafted (unless you want to count the .292/.337/.427/.764 in 89 ABs in A ball). The sox have done this before with prospects however. Hit average at a level, but push them to see if they can catch lightning in a bottle (or to work with the right hitting coach), especially for a higher pick to justify it. Edited July 15, 2011 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 10:49 AM) I just don't think the sox brass is as high on him as they were with say... Flowers at the time (though I can be wrong obviously). He really hasn't hit studly at any particular level since he was drafted (unless you want to count the .292/.337/.427/.764 in 89 ABs in A ball). The sox have done this before with prospects however. Hit average at a level, but push them to see if they can catch lightning in a bottle (or to work with the right hitting coach), especially for a higher pick to justify it. See, that's exactly why I think being concerned about him so far is unfair and moving him up now is a question mark...he hasn't hit great at any level, but for all practical purposes his 2010 season was a washout due to that illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:54 AM) See, that's exactly why I think being concerned about him so far is unfair and moving him up now is a question mark...he hasn't hit great at any level, but for all practical purposes his 2010 season was a washout due to that illness. Well your guess is as good as any when questioning the brass on moving guys up when the results don't show. Hell just this year, they moved Blanke up when he was in a 2-32 slump or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) Well your guess is as good as any when questioning the brass on moving guys up when the results don't show. Hell just this year, they moved Blanke up when he was in a 2-32 slump or something like that. Although Morel's done pretty much what I expected in the bigs this year (with a little less power), I think he and Hudson both sorta show that there's a downside risk to pushing these guys up so rapidly...that they get here and the team sours on them or the coach starts benching him because the team needs higher level performance more immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Although Morel's done pretty much what I expected in the bigs this year (with a little less power), I think he and Hudson both sorta show that there's a downside risk to pushing these guys up so rapidly...that they get here and the team sours on them or the coach starts benching him because the team needs higher level performance more immediately. I will never understand how the Sox turned on Hudson so quickly last year. IIRC, he made three starts. One of them was dominating, and the other two were poor (mostly cause of control issues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 11:10 AM) I will never understand how the Sox turned on Hudson so quickly last year. IIRC, he made three starts. One of them was dominating, and the other two were poor (mostly cause of control issues). The worst part was...you could see plainly why he was struggling with his control, because he was doing the classic rookie thing and trying to paint the corner at the knees with every pitch. He actually was controlling his pitches well, he was just too nervous to go after hitters...which happens all the time with a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) I will never understand how the Sox turned on Hudson so quickly last year. IIRC, he made three starts. One of them was dominating, and the other two were poor (mostly cause of control issues). This will always be a head-scratcher for me. Seemed to be a lot of hurriedness/panic involved with that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) This will always be a head-scratcher for me. Seemed to be a lot of hurriedness/panic involved with that deal. I think someone in the clubhouse had to really not like his attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) When Flowers moved up, I figured that Phegley would move up to Charlotte. I don't think it's a bad idea to move him up now. When you have the oppurtunity to see what a prospect can do at a higher level, then you move them up. Edited July 15, 2011 by JPN366 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) The worst part was...you could see plainly why he was struggling with his control, because he was doing the classic rookie thing and trying to paint the corner at the knees with every pitch. He actually was controlling his pitches well, he was just too nervous to go after hitters...which happens all the time with a rookie. I still say that Hudson would be a member of the Sox if Beckham makes a tough play, but one that could have been made, on a grounder to his left at Oakland. I was down on Hudson at the time cause he was supposed to have an awesome slider, but he never threw one. However, I do know I said I was very impressed at how many swing and misses he got on his change-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Tyler Kuhn helium watch over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 11:31 AM) Tyler Kuhn helium watch over. I don't think the organization views him that highly. I'm still not sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) I don't think the organization views him that highly. I'm still not sold. They're probably having CJ Retherford flashbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:16 AM) I think someone in the clubhouse had to really not like his attitude. Did he seem stubborn or uncoachable to the staff, Coop specifically? Edited July 15, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 10:47 AM) I don't think the organization views him that highly. I'm still not sold. They only gave him 7 games in Charlotte, which seems kinda weird. Maybe he'll be back up there soon, or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 01:27 PM) They only gave him 7 games in Charlotte, which seems kinda weird. Maybe he'll be back up there soon, or maybe not. Exactly. 7 games doesn't determine anything. Edited July 15, 2011 by JPN366 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) I still say that Hudson would be a member of the Sox if Beckham makes a tough play, but one that could have been made, on a grounder to his left at Oakland. I was down on Hudson at the time cause he was supposed to have an awesome slider, but he never threw one. However, I do know I said I was very impressed at how many swing and misses he got on his change-up. I watched each of his starts with the Sox intently, and when they traded him, I couldn't believe they were passing judgement so quickly on a guy who had made so many leaps forward last season. Still don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) I watched each of his starts with the Sox intently, and when they traded him, I couldn't believe they were passing judgement so quickly on a guy who had made so many leaps forward last season. Still don't understand it. I really don't think trading Hudson was a statement of the Sox thinking he was bad. I really think they thought they were giving themselves a better chance to win that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) I really don't think trading Hudson was a statement of the Sox thinking he was bad. I really think they thought they were giving themselves a better chance to win that year. They must have thought his ceiling was pretty low, to also give up Holmberg and given the financial negatives of the trade, JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) They must have thought his ceiling was pretty low, to also give up Holmberg and given the financial negatives of the trade, JMO. They thought they could win in 2010, which is why they did the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) They thought they could win in 2010, which is why they did the deal. I still struggle to believe that could possibly be the *only* reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 01:43 PM) I still struggle to believe that could possibly be the *only* reason. We all know Kenny would trade his own son (well if his son had any trade value) if the thought it would help us win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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