Super Official 2011 White Sox predictions thread

[southsider2k5]

He meant Jackson will get 5/75 if Jackson puts up those #'s.

 

Even if he puts up numbers close to what he has, he is looking at a much longer contract than the Sox will ever sign him too. Forget about Danks, he is already gone. Mark my words. John Danks will not be on the White Sox in 2013. Though I am sure that is just me being a blind homer again...

[Balta1701]

Even if he puts up numbers close to what he has, he is looking at a much longer contract than the Sox will ever sign him too. Forget about Danks, he is already gone. Mark my words. John Danks will not be on the White Sox in 2013. Though I am sure that is just me being a blind homer again...

I wonder what kind of salary/revenue level we'd be looking at if we won the 2011 and 2012 Central divisions and had 1 deep playoff run in there.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder what kind of salary/revenue level we'd be looking at if we won the 2011 and 2012 Central divisions and had 1 deep playoff run in there.

 

I don't see too much more being in the coffers unless the economy really improves a lot and we win a lot. The biggest thing that I see being the problem is that Danks is going to be really young when he hits the market, and he will be looking at something from 6 to possibly 8 years depending on how his next two year go. We went to four years for Buehrle as a major exception. Seeing what is going on with Peavy is only going to strengthen that resolve against long extensions for pitchers.

[Jack Parkman]

I don't see too much more being in the coffers unless the economy really improves a lot and we win a lot. The biggest thing that I see being the problem is that Danks is going to be really young when he hits the market, and he will be looking at something from 6 to possibly 8 years depending on how his next two year go. We went to four years for Buehrle as a major exception. Seeing what is going on with Peavy is only going to strengthen that resolve against long extensions for pitchers.

Unfortunately, the Sox would be doomed pitching wise if they don't start handing out some long term contracts to good pitchers and continue drafting poorly. All good pitchers command at least 3-5 years on the open market if they are 31 or younger. Aces or borderline aces/#2s command 6-7 years. Carlos Silva got 4 years for christsakes. I know what happened to Peavy would probably make JR want to not give longer than 3 years ever again, but if they don't start doing so, then the only pitchers the Sox would have after this group's contracts expire would be older pitchers or cost controlled pitchers. In other words, if they want to continue this policy, they better hire the best pitching scouts they can and be prepared to pay over slot in the draft so they can build a staff through the draft or trades. I don't want to see the day where we act like any good pitcher in the free agent market is like what a Boras client is now.

[Balta1701]

I don't see too much more being in the coffers unless the economy really improves a lot and we win a lot. The biggest thing that I see being the problem is that Danks is going to be really young when he hits the market, and he will be looking at something from 6 to possibly 8 years depending on how his next two year go. We went to four years for Buehrle as a major exception. Seeing what is going on with Peavy is only going to strengthen that resolve against long extensions for pitchers.

At least to my eyes...the Sox's attendance figures have fallen so drastically since 2005 that a couple division wins gives significant room for revenue improvement from here.

[Disco72]

Unfortunately, the Sox would be doomed pitching wise if they don't start handing out some long term contracts to good pitchers and continue drafting poorly. All good pitchers command at least 3-5 years on the open market if they are 31 or younger. Aces or borderline aces/#2s command 6-7 years. Carlos Silva got 4 years for christsakes. I know what happened to Peavy would probably make JR want to not give longer than 3 years ever again, but if they don't start doing so, then the only pitchers the Sox would have after this group's contracts expire would be older pitchers or cost controlled pitchers. In other words, if they want to continue this policy, they better hire the best pitching scouts they can and be prepared to pay over slot in the draft so they can build a staff through the draft or trades. I don't want to see the day where we act like any good pitcher in the free agent market is like what a Boras client is now.

 

Clearly, the key to your argument is that they can't avoid long term contracts AND draft poorly. The Sox have been absolutely right in not signing pitchers to long term deals. Look at how people complained about Linebrink...or Teahen (I know, not a pitcher)...and now Peavy's contract. If we had Zito's contract, the meltdown on this board would be epic.

 

However, people should keep in mind that only one member of the 2005 starting rotation is still on the Sox. KW has done a fine job restocking the major league rotation with good pitching...while often using their "terrible" minor league system to do so.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Unfortunately, the Sox would be doomed pitching wise if they don't start handing out some long term contracts to good pitchers and continue drafting poorly. All good pitchers command at least 3-5 years on the open market if they are 31 or younger. Aces or borderline aces/#2s command 6-7 years. Carlos Silva got 4 years for christsakes. I know what happened to Peavy would probably make JR want to not give longer than 3 years ever again, but if they don't start doing so, then the only pitchers the Sox would have after this group's contracts expire would be older pitchers or cost controlled pitchers. In other words, if they want to continue this policy, they better hire the best pitching scouts they can and be prepared to pay over slot in the draft so they can build a staff through the draft or trades. I don't want to see the day where we act like any good pitcher in the free agent market is like what a Boras client is now.

 

+1 billion. JR and Co. need to get off their damn high-horses when it comes to this stupid policy. You don't get to have a policy when you've got two starters about to become FAs, one who's agent you refuse to deal with, and your top pitching 'Spect is Addison Reed. KW has traded prospect after prospect after prospect over the last few years and the return has been one year of Nick Swisher, two months of a decrepit Ken Griffey Jr., Javy the sequel and Jake Prior. Instead of extending the Mark Teahen's of the world, handing out 3-4year deals to declining or mediocre relievers, overpaying for a 1B during his age 35-37 seasons because he gave you a world series baseball six years ago, spend some f***ing coin on some new scouts and the draft.

[Chicago White Sox]

+1 billion. JR and Co. need to get off their damn high-horses when it comes to this stupid policy. You don't get to have a policy when you've got two starters about to become FAs, one who's agent you refuse to deal with, and your top pitching 'Spect is Addison Reed. KW has traded prospect after prospect after prospect over the last few years and the return has been one year of Nick Swisher, two months of a decrepit Ken Griffey Jr., Javy the sequel and Jake Prior. Instead of extending the Mark Teahen's of the world, handing out 3-4year deals to declining or mediocre relievers, overpaying for a 1B during his age 35-37 seasons because he gave you a world series baseball six years ago, spend some f***ing coin on some new scouts and the draft.

Instead of signing Crain and Ohman, you would have used which minor leaguers in the bullpen?

 

Instead of signing Konerko, you would have signed which free agent 1B? Or would you have simply used Viciedo?

 

Also, please explain how the moves you're proposing make us better in 2011.

[ScottyDo]

+1 billion. JR and Co. need to get off their damn high-horses when it comes to this stupid policy. You don't get to have a policy when you've got two starters about to become FAs, one who's agent you refuse to deal with, and your top pitching 'Spect is Addison Reed. KW has traded prospect after prospect after prospect over the last few years and the return has been one year of Nick Swisher, two months of a decrepit Ken Griffey Jr., Javy the sequel and Jake Prior. Instead of extending the Mark Teahen's of the world, handing out 3-4year deals to declining or mediocre relievers, overpaying for a 1B during his age 35-37 seasons because he gave you a world series baseball six years ago, spend some f***ing coin on some new scouts and the draft.

I'm confused. If the Peavy deal were a signing rather than a trade, would you be okay with his contract? I mean, you're advocating dumping an enormous amount of cash and years into a pitcher, yet in other threads lambasting a contract where the pitcher is signed at big money but injured? Well, catastrophic injury is always a risk with pitchers, so you pretty much have to accept it if you want a big signing. I don't see how you can tenably ask for a huge contract pitcher and simultaneously condemn an expensive, injured pitcher.

 

Your larger point about the poor drafting has been pretty much universally conceded, even by KW as far back as 2 years ago when they overhauled the scouting department. Since then, minor league contribution to the big club has increased dramatically.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Instead of signing Crain and Ohman, you would have used which minor leaguers in the bullpen?

 

Instead of signing Konerko, you would have signed which free agent 1B? Or would you have simply used Viciedo?

 

Also, please explain how the moves you're proposing make us better in 2011.

 

You missed the point. I realize those were for the most part, I rather have brought back Putz or signed Scott Downs over Crain, and Ohman sucks, the best options for a team trying to win in 2011. The point is you can't blatantly ignore the farm for years, refuse to ever go over slot and never deal with the agent who represents the top talent yet want to have this strict policy in place.

 

I'm confused. If the Peavy deal were a signing rather than a trade, would you be okay with his contract? I mean, you're advocating dumping an enormous amount of cash and years into a pitcher, yet in other threads lambasting a contract where the pitcher is signed at big money but injured? Well, catastrophic injury is always a risk with pitchers, so you pretty much have to accept it if you want a big signing. I don't see how you can tenably ask for a huge contract pitcher and simultaneously condemn an expensive, injured pitcher.

 

Your larger point about the poor drafting has been pretty much universally conceded, even by KW as far back as 2 years ago when they overhauled the scouting department. Since then, minor league contribution to the big club has increased dramatically.

 

Peavy was damaged goods when we got him. That was the first sign. And like I said to Chicago White Sox, you can't have it both ways. Nothing wrong with not wanting to overpay in years/coin for FA pitchers. But damnit, stop trading away every decent pitching prospect we have, spend some money and draft better and you won't have to. Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson would look REALLY good right about now. How come we couldn't pony up for Tanner Scheppers over Josh Phegley in 2009 but we can overpay for mediocre relievers like Scott Linebrink and Jesse Crain and extend garbage like Mark Teahen in what is shaping up as KWs worst move ever?

Edited March 23, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Balta1701]

How many starters sign big, long-term 6-7 year contracts and then don't become injury laden before the end of it?

[ScottyDo]

You missed the point. I realize those were for the most part, I rather have brought back Putz or signed Scott Downs over Crain, and Ohman sucks, the best options for a team trying to win in 2011. The point is you can't blatantly ignore the farm for years, refuse to ever go over slot and never deal with the agent who represents the top talent yet want to have this strict policy in place.

 

 

 

Peavy was damaged goods when we got him. That was the first sign. And like I said to Chicago White Sox, you can't have it both ways. Nothing wrong with not wanting to overpay in years/coin for FA pitchers. But damnit, stop trading away every decent pitching prospect we have, spend some money and draft better and you won't have to. Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson would look REALLY good right about now. How come we couldn't pony up for Tanner Scheppers over Josh Phegley in 2009 but we can overpay for mediocre relievers like Scott Linebrink and Jesse Crain and extend garbage like Mark Teahen in what is shaping up as KWs worst move ever?

I don't know why you think they can't have it both ways when they have for 10 years now. One of the best 10 years in Sox history, record-wise, mind you. Clearly it is POSSIBLE to successfully walk that line. They may fail in the future due to the problems you've mentioned, but as of yet, they have not. None of that excuses -- or really has anything to do with -- other bad contracts.

Edited March 23, 2011 by ScottyDo

[Disco72]

You missed the point. I realize those were for the most part, I rather have brought back Putz or signed Scott Downs over Crain, and Ohman sucks, the best options for a team trying to win in 2011. The point is you can't blatantly ignore the farm for years, refuse to ever go over slot and never deal with the agent who represents the top talent yet want to have this strict policy in place.

 

 

 

Peavy was damaged goods when we got him. That was the first sign. And like I said to Chicago White Sox, you can't have it both ways. Nothing wrong with not wanting to overpay in years/coin for FA pitchers. But damnit, stop trading away every decent pitching prospect we have, spend some money and draft better and you won't have to. Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson would look REALLY good right about now. How come we couldn't pony up for Tanner Scheppers over Josh Phegley in 2009 but we can overpay for mediocre relievers like Scott Linebrink and Jesse Crain and extend garbage like Mark Teahen in what is shaping up as KWs worst move ever?

 

If that is my GM's worst move, I'm a pretty happy fan. Especially if his best moves include those like Thorton, Danks, and Floyd.

[BigSqwert]

Milledge will bat without a helmet after May.

Edited March 23, 2011 by BigSqwert

[ScottyDo]

Milledge will bat without a helmet after May.

And then put one on as he's coming home? That should make people happy, right?

[JohnCangelosi]

Carlos Quentin will be healthy all year and be in the 3 hole most of the second half

 

[southsider2k5]

Kruk and Olney picked the Sox to win the ALC. Kirkjen picked the Twins.

[bigruss]

If that is my GM's worst move, I'm a pretty happy fan. Especially if his best moves include those like Thorton, Danks, and Floyd.

Neglecting the farm system for so many years is actually KW's worst move.

 

Think about it, KW's strength is in finding other team's prospects/players to contribute to the Sox, he has a pretty fair record in trades, and I do love that he isn't hesitant to make a move (thought I do disagree with his targets sometimes).

 

But he and JR are pretty terrible when it comes to building from within, they restrict themselves and because of that they have held back the potential of where this organization could be.

 

Yes, they have had a successful decade in Sox standards, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have done better. They couldn't put together consistent years, mainly because they didn't have the depth to recover from injuries or lack of production on players that they relied heavily on. Have a strong farm system to help with injuries or to use as trade bait could've been the difference between a good 10 years (and I really only call it good because they won the WS, I know "only" but they weren't consistently good enough), and a great 10 years.

[Disco72]

Neglecting the farm system for so many years is actually KW's worst move.

 

Think about it, KW's strength is in finding other team's prospects/players to contribute to the Sox, he has a pretty fair record in trades, and I do love that he isn't hesitant to make a move (thought I do disagree with his targets sometimes).

 

But he and JR are pretty terrible when it comes to building from within, they restrict themselves and because of that they have held back the potential of where this organization could be.

 

Yes, they have had a successful decade in Sox standards, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have done better. They couldn't put together consistent years, mainly because they didn't have the depth to recover from injuries or lack of production on players that they relied heavily on. Have a strong farm system to help with injuries or to use as trade bait could've been the difference between a good 10 years (and I really only call it good because they won the WS, I know "only" but they weren't consistently good enough), and a great 10 years.

 

Fair criticisms, but at the same time, KW has traded away a ton of talent to get major league contributors. As bad as the farm system has been rated, it has still been good enough to keep restocking the major league club both through trades and through the rapid advances of guys like Beckham and Sale.

 

Having said that, your main point is well taken - not wasting so many good picks on bad players could have made a "good" 10 years great.

[Balta1701]

Having said that, your main point is well taken - not wasting so many good picks on bad players could have made a "good" 10 years great.

You know what? I don't think there's a team in the bigs, even legendary Boston, that can't say the exact same thing.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

BUUUUUUMP for FUUUUUN.

 

I was 1/3 on my bold predictions, which is OK with me.

 

I was wrong when I said Morel would have a better rookie season than Beckham's

I was wrong when I said Dunn would put a HR to the fandeck in CF (I think)

I was RIGHT about Humber being our 5th starter and doing a good job.

[witesoxfan]

Not a prediction. But I want to let all of Soxtalk know that if Thornton sports a better K-rate, WHIP, FIP, save% and saves overall than Soria I will get the Bieber tattoo. And to make it more interesting, he only has to trump Soria in 3 of those 5 categories for me to get the tat. J4L keeps his word. So save this post. Put it in your sigs or whatever.

 

You lucky motherf***er. Thornton was most definitely the better pitcher this year, but he only beat Soria in 2 of those 5.

[SoxAce]

You lucky motherf***er. Thornton was most definitely the better pitcher this year, but he only beat Soria in 2 of those 5.

 

Haha, I was looking for his post for the same thing. That is crazy.

 

Oh and I was right about Pierre having a down year defensively, and of course I was way off about my wacky prediction of Quentin being healthy and the pennant.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I was right about Dunn becoming the new Soxtalk whipping boy.

[Kyyle23]

Even if he puts up numbers close to what he has, he is looking at a much longer contract than the Sox will ever sign him too. Forget about Danks, he is already gone. Mark my words. John Danks will not be on the White Sox in 2013. Though I am sure that is just me being a blind homer again...

 

 

In the category of words that SS2K5 would like to have unmarked ......