Government Shutdown on the clock thread

[GoSox05]

Sounds like the Dems have caved for vague promises from McConnell and the government will be reopened (for a few weeks) shortly

 

God, they are so bad at this. Sigh.

[GoSox05]

@LoopEmma

 

Schumer warns McConnell though that if he doesn't hold up his end of the deal, he'll be betraying Dems and some of his own members.

 

 

Lmao.

[Soxbadger]

Democrats shouldnt over play their hand here. It makes sense to cut a deal given the perceived momentum they had in potentially gaining back seats.

 

Obviously if they made a bad deal it wouldnt make sense, but I assume that this is just a temporary thing, maybe with CHIP included.

[BigSqwert]

Lmao.

 

The Dem party loves to get dunked on.

[StrangeSox]

It's for three weeks and does include chip, but it doesn't include protections for hundreds of thousands of dreamers who are going to be deported starting in March and who the Democrats have repeatedly made promises to stand up for. The base is really, really pissed over a vague promise from McConnell, nothing from Ryan, and Trump already coming out and saying he wouldn't sign Graham-Durbin.

 

The GOP is going to continue to kick out as many people from this country as they can unabated

[Soxbadger]

It's for three weeks and does include chip, but it doesn't include protections for hundreds of thousands of dreamers who are going to be deported starting in March and who the Democrats have repeatedly made promises to stand up for. The base is really, really pissed over a vague promise from McConnell, nothing from Ryan, and Trump already coming out and saying he wouldn't sign Graham-Durbin.

 

The GOP is going to continue to kick out as many people from this country as they can unabated

 

Then the base needs to open their eyes because just pandering to the base could lead to more losses.

 

I am probably the most pro-immigration person on this board. But shutting the govt down over immigration could really hurt Democrats/immigrants in the future. With Trump being President, the idea that immigrants are going to get a fair deal right now is a pipe dream.

 

Im not sure what you want done at this point? Do you want Democrats to fight losing battles? Do you want immigrants to lose any empathy they may be getting?

 

I dont want them to be deported, but I also have to live in a world where I dont believe in magic. So right now the best the Democrats can do is try and show how stupid the govt is about immigration. And not do something that will cause people to turn on immigrants.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Soxbadger

[GoSox05]

Then the base needs to open their eyes because just pandering to the base could lead to more losses.

 

I am probably the most pro-immigration person on this board. But shutting the govt down over immigration could really hurt Democrats/immigrants in the future. With Trump being President, the idea that immigrants are going to get a fair deal right now is a pipe dream.

 

Im not sure what you want done at this point? Do you want Democrats to fight losing battles? Do you want immigrants to lose any empathy they may be getting?

 

I dont want them to be deported, but I also have to live in a world where I dont believe in magic. So right now the best the Democrats can do is try and show how stupid the govt is about immigration. And not do something that will cause people to turn on immigrants.

 

I'm the most pro-immigration person on this board, but oh well you are probably getting deported. Not my fall, blame the GOP. See ya.

Edited January 22, 2018 by GoSox05

[GoSox05]

ICE detains a Polish doctor and green-card holder who has lived in the U.S. for nearly 40 years

 

 

Sorry, bud. I don't believe in magic.

[Steve9347]

At least CHIP is set for 6 years.

[Soxbadger]

I'm the most pro-immigration person on this board, but oh well you are probably getting deported. Not my fall, blame the GOP. See ya.

 

Haha

 

Oh wait, where were people like you 8 years ago when the Democrats had the house/senate and President. When they could have used their numbers to pass laws that would have protected immigrants?

 

Last I checked I have been the only person on this board to continually argue that the US should open its borders to immigrants and allow basically anyone to immigrate to the US (outside of criminals etc.) But I also know that holding the govt hostage over such an issue could easily backfire.

 

So instead of doing what my opponents want (making immigrants look less empathetic), I will do what it takes to get into a position to win.

 

In the end, I feel that the political commercial "Democrats put illegal immigrants in front of our troops" doesnt really play well for Democrats. But this could have been avoided if Democrats had pushed this issue much harder years ago.

[StrangeSox]

Rahm Emanuel was busy lying to immigration activists and then Obama oversaw the collapse of the Democratic party across the country.

 

Democrats could have also pushed back against that bulls*** messaging given how popular DACA is even among Trump supporters. I think it's bad that they've shown no spine yet again, this time for ethnic cleansing.

 

Pissing off your base isn't a great way to get into a position to win.

[StrangeSox]

Seriously, if they are willing to agree to this level of uselessness, then why bother pretending to take a stand at all?

 

Deirdre Walsh

✔

@deirdrewalshcnn

.@GOPWhip also made it clear no commitment for House to take up Senate DACA deal, saying any bill had to include funding for the wall and "would not include amnesty"

 

1:41 PM - Jan 22, 2018

 

 

Trump and ICE will deport hundreds of thousands of dreamers in addition to the hundreds of thousands of tps recipients they're already condeming to middle eastern slave camps. They're also looking into how to arrest public officials in sanctuary cities. If the Congressional Democrats won't stand up to ethnic cleansing, what will they stand up for?

Edited January 22, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

Seriously, if they are willing to agree to this level of uselessness, then why bother pretending to take a stand at all?

 

Deirdre Walsh

✔

@deirdrewalshcnn

.@GOPWhip also made it clear no commitment for House to take up Senate DACA deal, saying any bill had to include funding for the wall and "would not include amnesty"

 

1:41 PM - Jan 22, 2018

 

 

Trump and ICE will deport hundreds of thousands of dreamers in addition to the hundreds of thousands of tps recipients they're already concerning to middle eastern slave camps. They're also looking into how to arrest public officials in sanctuary cities. If the Congressional Democrats won't stand up to ethnic cleansing, what will they stand up for?

If it was just a promise to take something up that the Republicans already broke last time I'd be as annoyed as you, but this both opens the government AND takes one of the hostages off the table. Now in 2 weeks we can at least focus on a single major hostage and whether or not they kept an explicit promise.

[caulfield12]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/mcc...ysis/index.html

 

Winners and Losers of the shutdown...include the liberal wing and 2020 Presidential hopefuls.

 

 

The thing is that the GOP has their own optics problem coming up. If Trump and Ryan want to send all those kids/teenagers/young adults out of the country in handcuffs, it will be another version of Bull Connor, police dogs and fire hoses in Birmingham on the national news in the 1960s. Story after story about individual lives and families affected, just like the ObamaCare/Tea Party revolt in 2010. Think prison holding camps similar to a World War Two for the Japanese.

 

When Trump starts to get hammered for being cruel and mean, he won’t be able to resist the idea of saving the day and making a last minute deal to screw over the House GOP.

 

If mass deportations do happen, those images of kids under ten being ripped from their parents will be the image of the fall campaign. And Trump wil never get his wall then. Even if Mexico agrees to pay for it. 1/4th of the country will love it, the other 3/4ths absolutely horrified, including the majority of American mothers.

 

Then you can add 1.6 million El Salvadorans, Hondurans and Guatemalans. Haitians. Nigerians. Plus another 2-4 million that were part of the Dream “Chain Migration” Act. You’re talking 5-6 million people, more or less. Good luck with that one.

Edited January 22, 2018 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

They've already been ramping up heavy-handed deportation raids and have revoked the status of several hundred thousand immigrants, forcing them to leave within a few years' time. The GOP at this point is pushing hard to further reduce legal immigration on top of this.

Edited January 22, 2018 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

In the final analysis, the ten Trump State Dems up for re-election considered their own careers more important than assurance of protecting the DACA kids.

 

We’ll see if any of them get primaried on the left. Probably not.

[Balta1701]

In the final analysis, the ten Trump State Dems up for re-election considered their own careers more important than assurance of protecting the DACA kids.

 

We’ll see if any of them get primaried on the left. Probably not.

This was still the right call. We can have this fight again in 3 weeks without the second hostage on the table.

[Soxbadger]

This was still the right call. We can have this fight again in 3 weeks without the second hostage on the table.

 

Its strange that people cant accept that a minority party cant force the majority party to do things it doesnt want. Democrats have to be really careful not to overplay their hand.

 

This whole mentality of "I need to get everything yesterday" just isnt going to work.

[StrangeSox]

Then why even try this in the first place instead of taking what McConnell offered last week, which is all you ended up with after a shutdown?

 

They'll cave again in three weeks and ICE will begin ripping apart families and deporting people who have known no other country.

[Balta1701]

Its strange that people cant accept that a minority party cant force the majority party to do things it doesnt want. Democrats have to be really careful not to overplay their hand.

 

This whole mentality of "I need to get everything yesterday" just isnt going to work.

I get it. There's legitimately a thousand people losing protection against deportation every day. There should be some urgency here. It will get more urgent every day, but now that's the only focus.

[brett05]

2013 Trump, the blame on a government shutdown is at the top. It is a terrible thing to have on a resume. In 100 years ,nobody will blame Boehner or Reid, it is all on Obama. The right guy would get everyone in a room and make a deal.

 

2018 The dealmaker has the job, but now if there is a shutdown blame the democrats.

 

I really want to know where republicans get off crying about dems not "working with them". In 8 years did they ever once work with Obama?

Check the voting record to verify the obstructionist party

[Balta1701]

Then why even try this in the first place instead of taking what McConnell offered last week, which is all you ended up with after a shutdown?

 

They'll cave again in three weeks and ICE will begin ripping apart families and deporting people who have known no other country.

Like I said, the other hostage is off the table. It's done, it's passed, they actually approved it.

[Soxbadger]

Then why even try this in the first place instead of taking what McConnell offered last week, which is all you ended up with after a shutdown?

 

They'll cave again in three weeks and ICE will begin ripping apart families and deporting people who have known no other country.

 

Maybe they will cave, maybe they wont. But why wasnt this a big priority 10 years ago? Why wait until youre the minority party?

 

 

 

I get it. There's legitimately a thousand people losing protection against deportation every day. There should be some urgency here. It will get more urgent every day, but now that's the only focus.

 

But they knew this problem was coming. It wasnt a surprise. This just wasnt a big issue for most people until it appeared to become politically advantageous. Obama and Congress could have passed a law greatly increasing immigrant rights, but I dont seem to recall it being that important then.

[Balta1701]

But they knew this problem was coming. It wasnt a surprise. This just wasnt a big issue for most people until it appeared to become politically advantageous. Obama and Congress could have passed a law greatly increasing immigrant rights, but I dont seem to recall it being that important then.

Like in 2010 when the Dream act passed the house got 55 votes on the floor of the senate?

[brett05]

I have little doubt that both parties will introduce legal law to protected those affected by DACA. Even if that means the wall being part of the deal.