southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 10:33 PM) Are you really trying to say one is relevant and the other is not? Would love some insight from the arguing side instead of just snide/empty comments and lapses of logic. Again, at the very least, attitudes/personalities matter and each individual person will have a different influence as a coach. This isn't a difficult concept. Obviously it is for some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) I don't disagree. However as long as we've had both coaches I think hitting has been overall a MUCH bigger issue than hitting. Besides, numerous "meh" pitchers have come here only to turn themselves into real names. What hitters have done that? I can't think of a single one off-hand. Quentin is about as close as it gets and for the most part that was simply one year. That is a huge misconception. Since 2004 Walker's first full year the White Sox offense based on runs scored in the AL ranked 3rd-2004 9th-2005 3rd-2006 14th-2007 5th-2008 12th-2009 7th-2010 11th-2011 The pitchers ERA were ranked 12th-2004 2nd-2005 10th-2006 12th-2007 6th-2008 2nd-2009 8th-2010 6th-2011 So in the 8 years 4 times the offense was ranked higher than the pitching and 4 times the pitching was ranked higher than the offense. You could blame USCF, but most Sox pitchers have pitched better at home than on the road, and KW spends more money per pitcher than per position player over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) That is a huge misconception. Since 2004 Walker's first full year the White Sox offense based on runs scored in the AL ranked 3rd-2004 9th-2005 3rd-2006 14th-2007 5th-2008 12th-2009 7th-2010 11th-2011 The pitchers ERA were ranked 12th-2004 2nd-2005 10th-2006 12th-2007 6th-2008 2nd-2009 8th-2010 6th-2011 So in the 8 years 4 times the offense was ranked higher than the pitching and 4 times the pitching was ranked higher than the offense. You could blame USCF, but most Sox pitchers have pitched better at home than on the road, and KW spends more money per pitcher than per position player over the years. I think the argument is what young hitter or unproven hitter has come to the White Sox and flourished under Walker? Most aren't going to give Walker credit for Frank, Maggs, Lee, PK, Thome and Dye. Those guys were established long before they hooked up with Walker. I guess you can say CQ? Though he's been maddeningly inconsistent. Anderson? Fields? Getz? Beckham? Swisher? As where with Coop you can obviously point to Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, Floyd and for the moment Humber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) I think the argument is what young hitter or unproven hitter has come to the White Sox and flourished under Walker? Most aren't going to give Walker credit for Frank, Maggs, Lee, PK, Thome and Dye. Those guys were established long before they hooked up with Walker. I guess you can say CQ? Though he's been maddeningly inconsistent. Anderson? Fields? Getz? Beckham? Swisher? As where with Coop you can obviously point to Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, Floyd and for the moment Humber. Dye had struggled for a couple of years with injuries. Thome had been hurt. Konerko was hitting like Adam Dunn currently is hitting but making more contact. Aaron Rowand swears by Walker. Pods became a better hitter. Crede was alright and was really starting to flourish in 2006 when his back gave out. Look at his numbers at the end of August that year. Alexei Ramirez, Iguchi. Again its a case where the perception is any success pitchers have is because of Cooper. If they fail they just suck. With Walker, if the fail, its because of Greg Walker. If they do well, it has nothing to do with him. Edited July 10, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Danny Duffy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 As much as I hate Walker, it's not like he had much to work with in the lineup we had tonight. Three guys out of the nine should be in AAA (Flowers, Lillibridge, Morel). Pierre and Beckham can only do so much offensively as well. I think it's time we just realize this is a pretty average roster we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) As much as I hate Walker, it's not like he had much to work with in the lineup we had tonight. Three guys out of the nine should be in AAA (Flowers, Lillibridge, Morel). Pierre and Beckham can only do so much offensively as well. I think it's time we just realize this is a pretty average roster we have. Danny f***ing Duffy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 11:33 PM) And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even. Where is the like button for posts? this one made me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I just thought of something. We get to see Adam Dunn bat fourth against a lefty on Wednesday. Awesome. We're going to lose 2 of 3 to KC again ... perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 10:33 PM) And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even. Are you sure it was Rios or an imposter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 12:34 AM) Are you sure it was Rios or an imposter? Has anyone seen Rios and Imposter at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 11:00 PM) Danny f***ing Duffy! For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside. What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere. This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:36 AM) For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside. What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere. This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid. He is supposed to be one of the best of their "legendary" system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:36 AM) For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside. What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere. This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid. So what you're basically saying is that we should just tip our cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 09:46 AM) So what you're basically saying is that we should just tip our cap. Do I need to bump the hyperbole thread? Of course not. Just admit that the guy had some decent stuff. This wasn't an 89 mph junkballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) Do I need to bump the hyperbole thread? Of course not. Just admit that the guy had some decent stuff. This wasn't an 89 mph junkballer. Huh? How is that hyperbole? You just listed why we should, in fact, tip our cap because he had good stuff. What other definition is there for "tipping your cap" when it doesn't apply to a scenario where the opposing pitcher pitched a great game? I think you're being overly sensitive here. Edited July 20, 2011 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 09:54 AM) Huh? How is that hyperbole? You just listed why we should, in fact, tip our cap because he had good stuff. What other definition is there for "tipping your cap" when it doesn't apply to a scenario where the opposing pitcher pitched a great game? I think you;re being overly sensitive here. Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:55 AM) Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap? Because that is pretty much the definition of "tip your cap". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:55 AM) Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap? Because that's what tipping your cap means. You couldn't get the job done because the pitcher you faced was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Anybody else ready to tip your cap to Bruce Chen again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) Anybody else ready to tip your cap to Bruce Chen again? You mean Cy Chen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:56 AM) Because that's what tipping your cap means. You couldn't get the job done because the pitcher you faced was very good. I recommend you and Balta have a nice sit-down and hash things out. The "hyperbole" comment was just so out of left-field and inaccurate it's silly. You tip your cap when a pitcher kicks ass like that... that's a common baseball term. You two have been bickering and I would like to see that settled. However, as an outsider, in both areas where this has happened it's been Balta inexplicably picking a fight. Come on, buddy, we all know you're better than that. As for Greg Walker, I have officially given up. Clearly every piece of management with this team is on a raft headed for safety as the ship plunges further into the depths of Lake Michigan. The Tigers, who have at least been in 1st at some point recently, fired their pitching coach (ie held someone accountable), but the Sox just won't f***ing do it. On a team with so many exceptional hitters contributing nothing, the hitting coach should go... that's just f***ing baseball. However, it's not f***ing happening, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Walker has been the Sox hitting coach since 2003, and since then, here are the White Sox rankings in runs scored in the AL: 2003: 791 runs (8th in the AL) 2004: 865 (3rd in the AL) 2005: 741 (9th in the AL) 2006: 868 (4rd in the AL) 2007: 693 (14th and dead last in the AL) 2008: 811 (5th in the AL) 2009: 724 (12th in the AL) 2010: 752 (7th in the AL) 2011: 389 (10th in the AL, on pace for 650 runs) It started out well, but has been bad from 2007 on (with 2008 a good year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) 2003: 791 runs (8th in the AL) 2004: 865 (3rd in the AL) 2005: 741 (9th in the AL) 2006: 868 (4rd in the AL) 2007: 693 (14th and dead last in the AL) 2008: 811 (5th in the AL) 2009: 724 (12th in the AL) 2010: 752 (7th in the AL) 2011: 389 (10th in the AL, on pace for 650 runs) Bad overall, relative to payroll, and this isn't adjusted for how good a hitters park we have even, is it? Edited July 20, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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