Ozzie's "old school" style killing this team

[ILMOU]

+1 Yep. Totally let Lester off the hook.

 

 

Pitchers must love going against us, knowing that the Ozzeroo will likely take him off the hook at least once a game with bunts and misplaced aggression on the basepaths. It's a freakin' joke.

 

When their pitching coach came out at the 2-0 count to Morel, it was clear he was telling Lester to go ahead and groove it, knowing that Ozzie would always do them the favor of keep the bunt on, regardless. Why not let an improving young hitter gain some confidence by turning him loose in that situation?

 

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Pitchers must love going against us, knowing that the Ozzeroo will likely take him off the hook at least once a game with bunts and misplaced aggression on the basepaths. It's a freakin' joke.

 

When their pitching coach came out at the 2-0 count to Morel, it was clear he was telling Lester to go ahead and groove it, knowing that Ozzie would always do them the favor of keep the bunt on, regardless. Why not let an improving young hitter gain some confidence by turning him loose in that situation?

Why don't you go piss on the 2005 stature and leave the managing to the experts.

 

[ILMOU]

What did Francona do? I didn't watch the whole game.

 

I didn't go through the gamethread, but it seemed like Francona tried way too hard to give Lester a shot at getting a win. At the 127 pitch mark with the bases loaded in the 6th inning of a 3-3 tie and a right-hander ready in the bullpen, he let Lester pitch to Lexi. Didn't make a lot of sense.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen

[southsider2k5]

I didn't go through the gamethread, but it seemed like Francona tried way too hard to give Lester a shot at getting a win. At the 127 pitch mark with the bases loaded in the 6th inning of a 3-3 tie and a right-hander ready in the bullpen, he let Lester pitch to Lexi. Didn't make a lot of sense.

 

Especially because Alexei had been hitting Lester like a redheaded stepchild.

[LittleHurt05]

So our fearless leader once again gave away an out by calling for a stupid sac bunt again tonight that killed an inning.

 

Ozzie leads all AL managers in calling for both sac bunts and int walks.

 

This is LOSING baseball.

 

The three teams in MLB that have sac bunted the least?

 

1st place Indians

 

1st place Red Sox

 

1st place Diamondbacks

 

Idiot.

 

Last year's World Series champion was 3rd in the majors in sacrifice bunts, and the AL champion led the AL in sacrifices. Idiots.

[elrockinMT]

Bunting is an important part of a game. Sox need to get it down literally and figuratively. Ozzie is not playing dumb baseball

[BigSqwert]

Bunting is an important part of a game. Sox need to get it down literally and figuratively. Ozzie is not playing dumb baseball

But knowing when to do it and which guys on your team are capable of doing it should be something a manager should have mastered after 7+ years with a team.

[fathom]

Bunting is an important part of a game. Sox need to get it down literally and figuratively. Ozzie is not playing dumb baseball

 

 

There's no reason to be bunting before the 7th inning in the AL. Bunting at Fenway against this Boston offense so early in the game is just giving up outs and letting pitcher off the hook. Bunting before Juan Pierre is silly, as he rarely hits ball far enough for a sac fly.

[caulfield12]

Not to mention the fact that Lester has been pretty terrible against the White Sox in his career.

 

It's impossible to believe that they were expecting only 1 or 2 more runs would win the game. I GET the idea that acquiring a lead or being the first to score out of the gate sets the momentum for the team and builds confidence, but we're not talking the 2005, 2006 or even 2008 White Sox here.

 

The interesting thing is that the more you read about KW and Hahn, the less you get the idea that philosophically they're in agreement with this "NL/small ball/Ozzie ball" label.

 

And as much as we've been a team of sluggers since USCF opened, it has always been the pitching that delineated the eventual success of various seasons. One way or the other, you'd just like to see the front office, minor leagues and MLB coaching staff all on the same page.

 

If we are to be a team of bunters/sacrificers/hit to the opposite field types, why isn't this being inculcated into our minor leaguers? When you think back to the likes of Borchard, Rowand, Crede, Josh Fields, Brian Anderson...none of them profile as those type of players. Why aren't they forced to learn those skills as soon as they're drafted, at the minor league level?

 

In the old days, if you couldn't hit 20-30 homers per season, you simply HAD to do the other things well to stay in the big leagues. Omar Vizquel is a perfect example of this, he was a "plus plus" fielder, could steal a base, make contact, he did the "complementary" things we earlier saw with Iguchi in 2005/06.

 

And yet we've had very few of these prospects in our system. Chris Getz comes to mind. Morel, to an extent. Maybe Sweeney. Jerry Owens, although he wasn't "raised" in our system for very long. And yet for each of them, their lack of power/OPS/SLG was often cited as the reason why they weren't good fits for our major league team...being "grindy" is only good for veteran players like Erstad and Kotsay, apparently.

 

Then you look at the minor leaguers like Mitchell, Thompson, Viciedo, Danks, Flowers, etc. They're all "hit or strike out" types, with the possible exception of Viciedo and Mitchell as they mature.

 

It's just very frustrating to watch players like Rios who SHOULD be able to contribute something offensively even if they're struggling and yet they've never learned how...some of the blame lies with the Blue Jays for spoiling/coddling both him and Wells, but it's been so ugly for Rios for much of his time here (yes, minus the first half of 2010...even Beckham has been pretty good 1/2 of the time, not 1/3rd.)

Edited May 31, 2011 by caulfield12

[macsandz]

There's no reason to be bunting before the 7th inning in the AL. Bunting at Fenway against this Boston offense so early in the game is just giving up outs and letting pitcher off the hook. Bunting before Juan Pierre is silly, as he rarely hits ball far enough for a sac fly.

 

YES!! Simple Logic!

[kitekrazy]

Not to mention the fact that Lester has been pretty terrible against the White Sox in his career.

 

It's impossible to believe that they were expecting only 1 or 2 more runs would win the game. I GET the idea that acquiring a lead or being the first to score out of the gate sets the momentum for the team and builds confidence, but we're not talking the 2005, 2006 or even 2008 White Sox here.

 

The interesting thing is that the more you read about KW and Hahn, the less you get the idea that philosophically they're in agreement with this "NL/small ball/Ozzie ball" label.

 

And as much as we've been a team of sluggers since USCF opened, it has always been the pitching that delineated the eventual success of various seasons. One way or the other, you'd just like to see the front office, minor leagues and MLB coaching staff all on the same page.

 

If we are to be a team of bunters/sacrificers/hit to the opposite field types, why isn't this being inculcated into our minor leaguers? When you think back to the likes of Borchard, Rowand, Crede, Josh Fields, Brian Anderson...none of them profile as those type of players. Why aren't they forced to learn those skills as soon as they're drafted, at the minor league level?

 

In the old days, if you couldn't hit 20-30 homers per season, you simply HAD to do the other things well to stay in the big leagues. Omar Vizquel is a perfect example of this, he was a "plus plus" fielder, could steal a base, make contact, he did the "complementary" things we earlier saw with Iguchi in 2005/06.

 

And yet we've had very few of these prospects in our system. Chris Getz comes to mind. Morel, to an extent. Maybe Sweeney. Jerry Owens, although he wasn't "raised" in our system for very long. And yet for each of them, their lack of power/OPS/SLG was often cited as the reason why they weren't good fits for our major league team...being "grindy" is only good for veteran players like Erstad and Kotsay, apparently.

 

Then you look at the minor leaguers like Mitchell, Thompson, Viciedo, Danks, Flowers, etc. They're all "hit or strike out" types, with the possible exception of Viciedo and Mitchell as they mature.

 

It's just very frustrating to watch players like Rios who SHOULD be able to contribute something offensively even if they're struggling and yet they've never learned how...some of the blame lies with the Blue Jays for spoiling/coddling both him and Wells, but it's been so ugly for Rios for much of his time here (yes, minus the first half of 2010...even Beckham has been pretty good 1/2 of the time, not 1/3rd.)

 

Great post. I often wonder that the Sox philosophy on drafting is that all deficiencies can be erased or improved upon. Some things like catching a baseball, holding runners on, ect. probably aren't going to get better if they didn't happen before entering the professional level of baseball.

[southsider2k5]

Not to mention the fact that Lester has been pretty terrible against the White Sox in his career.

 

It's impossible to believe that they were expecting only 1 or 2 more runs would win the game. I GET the idea that acquiring a lead or being the first to score out of the gate sets the momentum for the team and builds confidence, but we're not talking the 2005, 2006 or even 2008 White Sox here.

 

The interesting thing is that the more you read about KW and Hahn, the less you get the idea that philosophically they're in agreement with this "NL/small ball/Ozzie ball" label.

 

And as much as we've been a team of sluggers since USCF opened, it has always been the pitching that delineated the eventual success of various seasons. One way or the other, you'd just like to see the front office, minor leagues and MLB coaching staff all on the same page.

 

If we are to be a team of bunters/sacrificers/hit to the opposite field types, why isn't this being inculcated into our minor leaguers? When you think back to the likes of Borchard, Rowand, Crede, Josh Fields, Brian Anderson...none of them profile as those type of players. Why aren't they forced to learn those skills as soon as they're drafted, at the minor league level?

 

In the old days, if you couldn't hit 20-30 homers per season, you simply HAD to do the other things well to stay in the big leagues. Omar Vizquel is a perfect example of this, he was a "plus plus" fielder, could steal a base, make contact, he did the "complementary" things we earlier saw with Iguchi in 2005/06.

 

And yet we've had very few of these prospects in our system. Chris Getz comes to mind. Morel, to an extent. Maybe Sweeney. Jerry Owens, although he wasn't "raised" in our system for very long. And yet for each of them, their lack of power/OPS/SLG was often cited as the reason why they weren't good fits for our major league team...being "grindy" is only good for veteran players like Erstad and Kotsay, apparently.

 

Then you look at the minor leaguers like Mitchell, Thompson, Viciedo, Danks, Flowers, etc. They're all "hit or strike out" types, with the possible exception of Viciedo and Mitchell as they mature.

 

It's just very frustrating to watch players like Rios who SHOULD be able to contribute something offensively even if they're struggling and yet they've never learned how...some of the blame lies with the Blue Jays for spoiling/coddling both him and Wells, but it's been so ugly for Rios for much of his time here (yes, minus the first half of 2010...even Beckham has been pretty good 1/2 of the time, not 1/3rd.)

 

At least Mitchell and Danks should be learning how to bunt right now.

 

[greg775]

Last year's World Series champion was 3rd in the majors in sacrifice bunts, and the AL champion led the AL in sacrifices. Idiots.

 

This post says it all. Please make it its own thread and lock it forever.

The bunt is a VALUABLE TOOL you FOOL.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist the rhyme, didn't mean it to come out angry.

[fathom]

This post says it all. Please make it its own thread and lock it forever.

The bunt is a VALUABLE TOOL you FOOL.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist the rhyme, didn't mean it to come out angry.

 

I didn't know we had a starting rotation with Lincecum and Cain or a 3-4-5 with Hamilton/Vlad/Cruz

[----------]

Last year's World Series champion was 3rd in the majors in sacrifice bunts, and the AL champion led the AL in sacrifices. Idiots.

I'm not arguing, but if I had a guess, I'd would guess that the rangers lead baseball in sac flies. I'm curious about how many bunts they laid down.

[Balta1701]

At least Mitchell and Danks should be learning how to bunt right now.

So that they can become better 2 strike hitters?

[southsider2k5]

So that they can become better 2 strike hitters?

 

With the holes in their bats, they need to find ways to create advantages for themselves. Having guys playing in close increases the odds of a ball getting through that normally wouldn't. See also Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel.