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[ptatc]

I'm sure it affects them, and I don't believe I said otherwise. But they fully deserve the boos they get, and to blame the fans for it in any way is laughable. I suppose fans should sit on their hands and only remove them to politely clap each time a player has a success. Otherwise, deathly quiet.

 

No, if you read the post, I agree they deserve to be booed, if someone is so inclined. The offense has been awful. Your previous post made it sound like the fans have no effect on the players. That is what I was commenting on.

 

There is no doubt some of the players particularly the hitters deserve all they get.

 

I got my Bears tickets in the mail and I can now begin booing them in person on Sat.

Edited August 8, 2011 by ptatc

[iamshack]

The issue here is that some people seem to be arguing this logical proof:

 

Some players are affected by negative treatment by the fans.

 

The team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season.

 

Ergo, the team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season because of negative treatment by the fans.

 

There is nowhere near enough evidence to support that conclusion. It's a fallacy.

 

Carry on.

Edited August 8, 2011 by iamshack

[ptatc]

The issue here is that some people seem to be arguing this logical proof:

 

Some players are affected by negative treatment by the fans.

 

The team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season.

 

Ergo, the team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season because of negative treatment by the fans.

 

There is nowhere near enough evidence to support that conclusion. It's a fallacy.

 

Carry on.

 

It's not a fallacy. I also don't think it is the only factor. Maybe they see the HR stats and swing for the fences all the time, you knows. However, as the season has gone on, I have no doubt that it is a contributing factor. Again, not that they don't deserve it.

 

[iamshack]

I don't have all of the answers, but it didn't take a genius to see that this team has been steadily going down the wrong path basically since 2007. Changes have been becoming more and more necessary, but the franchise has been in absolute denial about it.

But this is entirely 20/20 hindsight monday morning quarterbacking.

 

The team was a disaster in 07.

 

The team won the division in 08.

 

The team's biggest weakness last season was having no effective DH.

 

Adam Dunn was signed this past offseason, and most of the remainder of the team was kept intact.

 

The team has been worse this season, despite that signing.

 

It's really easy to say that things have been terrible and going downhill for years, but they really have not. They've been hovering around a position where it is unclear whether the whole thing needs to be torn down or whether the existing core needs to be dismantled and a new core needs to be built.

 

I respect anyone's opinion on which path we should have taken. But where I get frustrated is when fans think there is some easy path to success or that this year's team was determined to fail from the outset.

 

A lot smarter men than most of us have tried to answer these questions and been wrong. So it's just not as clear-cut as many would like for it to be.

[Jordan4life_2007]

lol. Well it's a good thing Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, etc, don't play for the Phillies, Mets, Yankees or Red Sox. If the booing here has any affect on them whatsoever, my goodness, they'd have to be institutionalized playing in those environments every day.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Jordan4life

[iamshack]

It's not a fallacy. I also don't think it is the only factor. Maybe they see the HR stats and swing for the fences all the time, you knows. However, as the season has gone on, I have no doubt that it is a contributing factor. Again, not that they don't deserve it.

Re-read the post. It absolutely is a fallacy.

[BigSqwert]

If only fans didn't start booing 3 months into a horrific season (with regards to expectations). The team was about to go on an absolute tear out of nowhere but hearing 2 of the worst players in the game being occasionally booed stymied that magical turnaround.

[ptatc]

Re-read the post. It absolutely is a fallacy.

 

i read the post. And while I agree it isn't the only determining factor, your implying it doesn't effect their play, which is wrong.

 

[Milkman delivers]

But this is entirely 20/20 hindsight monday morning quarterbacking.

The team was a disaster in 07.

 

The team won the division in 08.

 

The team's biggest weakness last season was having no effective DH.

 

Adam Dunn was signed this past offseason, and most of the remainder of the team was kept intact.

 

The team has been worse this season, despite that signing.

 

It's really easy to say that things have been terrible and going downhill for years, but they really have not. They've been hovering around a position where it is unclear whether the whole thing needs to be torn down or whether the existing core needs to be dismantled and a new core needs to be built.

 

I respect anyone's opinion on which path we should have taken. But where I get frustrated is when fans think there is some easy path to success or that this year's team was determined to fail from the outset.

 

A lot smarter men than most of us have tried to answer these questions and been wrong. So it's just not as clear-cut as many would like for it to be.

 

No, man, no. I've been calling for a rebuild since 2007. Go back and read my posts if you care to. I don't like being characterized as being a Monday morning quarterback just because most others weren't saying it.

[BigSqwert]

i read the post. And while I agree it isn't the only determining factor, your implying it doesn't effect their play, which is wrong.

 

I wonder why AJ isn't hitless on the road since they boo him in every at bat wherever he goes.

[ptatc]

lol. Well it's a good thing Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, etc, don't play for the Phillies, Mets, Yankees or Red Sox. If the booing here has any affect on them whatsoever, my goodness, they'd have to be institutionalized playing in those environments every day.

 

As long as the team they are playing was winning the boos wouldn't be as bad and it wouldn't effect them as much. However, this doesn't apply to just those guys. All players are effecting to some extent. The only team you listed that is losing is the Mets. I'm sure if we looked at the team, there would be players in the same situation. Rios was effected by the fans in Toronto, he didn't even need to go to a high pressure environment to fold.

[iamshack]

i read the post. And while I agree it isn't the only determining factor, your implying it doesn't effect their play, which is wrong.

Oh nevermind. You don't want to even bother to read the thread clearly. You just want to make it clear that you spend time in the clubhouse from time to time.

[BigSqwert]

As long as the team they are playing was winning the boos wouldn't be as bad and it wouldn't effect them as much. However, this doesn't apply to just those guys. All players are effecting to some extent. The only team you listed that is losing is the Mets. I'm sure if we looked at the team, there would be players in the same situation. Rios was effected by the fans in Toronto, he didn't even need to go to a high pressure environment to fold.

 

Why does Rios have better numbers at home if he's getting booed?

[ptatc]

I wonder why AJ isn't hitless on the road since they boo him in every at bat wherever he goes.

 

because he is a@# who enjoys that kind of thing. Most people in life aren't happy to make others miserable, he seems to enjoy it.

[BigSqwert]

because he is a@# who enjoys that kind of thing. Most people in life aren't happy to make others miserable, he seems to enjoy it.

 

Not only are you a medical doctor but you're also an online shrink! Go figure.

 

Perhaps Rios is the same way since he performs better when booed.

Edited August 8, 2011 by BigSqwert

[iamshack]

No, man, no. I've been calling for a rebuild since 2007. Go back and read my posts if you care to. I don't like being characterized as being a Monday morning quarterback just because most others weren't saying it.

Yes, and you were clearly wrong about that, since they won the division in 2008. Who knows what happens if Quentin doesn't f*** up his hand with a month remaining.

 

Let me ask you this. If Adam Dunn had performed at his career averages to this point in the season, where do you think we would be in the standings right now?

Edited August 8, 2011 by iamshack

[iamshack]

because he is a@# who enjoys that kind of thing. Most people in life aren't happy to make others miserable, he seems to enjoy it.

But does he really?

 

He has a .604 OPS on the road and an .817 OPS at home....

[ptatc]

Why does Rios have better numbers at home if he's getting booed?

 

They certainly aren't good numbers so maybe they would be better.

 

This is not a black and white variable that you can apply to everyone in every situation like so many like to do. All I'm saying is that if spent any amount of time in a MLB clubhouse, you would know that the fans can do do effect players which in turn can effect their play.

[Balta1701]

Why does Rios have better numbers at home if he's getting booed?

Because his numbers are dominated by the last 2 games?

[ptatc]

But does he really?

 

He has a .604 OPS on the road and an .817 OPS at home....

 

If you had ever met him, you would know he does. He talks about it alot.

[iamshack]

Because his numbers are dominated by the last 2 games?

Those two games both happened on the road.

 

His overall numbers suggest he plays better at home.

[iamshack]

If you had ever met him, you would know he does. He talks about it alot.

First of all, that really says nothing about what is really going on in his mind when he is playing...

 

And secondly, that is exactly my point. There is really no causal link anyone can establish between the fans' behavior and the player's performance.

 

I would guess there is a larger incidence of referees/umpires falling victim to the influence of the fans and having an impact than the players...

[BigSqwert]

This is not a black and white variable that you can apply to everyone in every situation like so many like to do. All I'm saying is that if spent any amount of time in a MLB clubhouse, you would know that the fans can do do effect players which in turn can effect their play.

 

But they didn't start booing until June. So you're telling me the team just sucked for some mysterious reason in April and May, was about to completely turn things around but the fans stopped that from occurring because they started to occasionally boo?

[hogan873]

I wonder why AJ isn't hitless on the road since they boo him in every at bat wherever he goes.

I think he's used to and probably enjoys the boos he gets from all the away parks he plays in. Remember how much we hated him when he played for the Twins? He's an ass, but he's currently our ass.

[Milkman delivers]

Yes, and you were clearly wrong about that, since they won the division in 2008. Who knows what happens if Quentin doesn't f*** up his hand with a month remaining.

 

Let me ask you this. If Adam Dunn had performed at his career averages to this point in the season, where do you think we would be in the standings right now?

 

I completely disagree that I would have been wrong just because we won a bad division in 2008 and couldn't hang with the serious AL contenders. If Dunn were himself, we'd probably be at the top of this division, but we'd still be a weak playoff contender in comparison to the rest of the AL. I have wanted us to rebuild in order to attempt to make ourselves a powerhouse playoff team.