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QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 02:48 PM)
Marty is the biggest Monday morning quarterback ever. If we all had a crystal ball and could predict the future, would anyone in the their right mind sign Adam Dunn?

 

 

*crickets*

 

Anyone????????????????????????????????

 

*crickets*

 

What's that old saying, the buck stops here? I don't care if everyone in the world heralded the Dunn signing at the time. The GM has to take responsibility. Hell, he's done that publicly and there are still those on this board who give him a pass.

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:10 PM)
What's that old saying, the buck stops here? I don't care if everyone in the world heralded the Dunn signing at the time. The GM has to take responsibility. Hell, he's done that publicly and there are still those on this board who give him a pass.

 

Beating up a on a guy for something that was universally heralded is just dumb. Its like beating up on a handicapped kid.

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 01:01 PM)
The 2011 White Sox were characterized by an extraordinary amount of underachievement. Tony LaRussa, like him or not, is but a handful of wins away from being the second winningest manager in the history of the game. That means he has overseen a whole lot of achieving throughout his managerial career.

 

Now how much of that achieving can be directly attributed to him and his managerial style can obviously be debated, but his record of players coming through for him stands on its own. And I can't help but wonder, what with our more noteable underachievers seemingly tethered to this team for the next few years, if it makes more sense to bring in a guy like LaRussa with his record of achievement to try our best to get something out of these guys. Or are we really comfortable just handing this mess over to someone with no managerial experience whatsoever and hoping for the best.

 

This is not meant to be a slam on Alomar or Martinez, who both profile as effective future managers in this game. I'm just coming at this with what might be best for our particular roster of players. (And as for LaRussa purportedly being an ass, I could care less. I wouldn't have to deal with him!)

 

Why would an established manager with rings (LaRussa, Francona) want to manage a team that is almost certainly going to shed a ton of payroll over the next year and go through a rebuilding process? I don't see how managing the Sox would appeal to either of these guys.

 

My guess is that JR and KW will hire somebody with little or no managerial experience, who won't command a ton of money, looking for their first break. Like Alomar or Martinez.

 

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 02:35 PM)
There is absolutely zero evidence that Kenny was against signing Dunn.

 

Nor is there any evidence that he was the only one that wanted him.

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:10 PM)
What's that old saying, the buck stops here? I don't care if everyone in the world heralded the Dunn signing at the time. The GM has to take responsibility. Hell, he's done that publicly and there are still those on this board who give him a pass.

 

Actually Dunn should be the person to take the responsibility for playing this poorly. About the last guy to be blamed for the way Dunn played should be the GM.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 04:20 PM)
Actually Dunn should be the person to take the responsibility for playing this poorly. About the last guy to be blamed for the way Dunn played should be the GM.

Should the Nats GM take any blame for the Werth signing? Should Theo take any blame for Crawford, Drew, and Lackey?

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QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:18 PM)
Nor is there any evidence that he was the only one that wanted him.

 

In fact the evidence is quite the opposite.

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I have a hard time seeing LaRussa coming to Chicago w/o Dave Duncan. They seem to be a package deal.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:23 PM)
Should the Nats GM take any blame for the Werth signing? Should Theo take any blame for Crawford, Drew, and Lackey?

 

Who praised any of those deals when they happened? Especially Werth, Crawford, or Drew?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 04:25 PM)
Who praised any of those deals when they happened? Especially Werth, Crawford, or Drew?

I think a ton of people had Boston penciled in for the AL East this year, don't you?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:24 PM)
In fact the evidence is quite the opposite.

 

 

Exactly, which is partially why he does not take 100% of the fall. Oz playing Dunn in 122 games or so and getting him 400+ ABs is more the problem.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:30 PM)
I think a ton of people had Boston penciled in for the AL East this year, don't you?

 

It doesn't make those contracts any better, especially the Werth and Crawford deals, which were pretty universally slammed. Not to mention the Dunn deal is a 1/3 or so of both of those deals.

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:18 PM)
Why would an established manager with rings (LaRussa, Francona) want to manage a team that is almost certainly going to shed a ton of payroll over the next year and go through a rebuilding process? I don't see how managing the Sox would appeal to either of these guys.

 

My guess is that JR and KW will hire somebody with little or no managerial experience, who won't command a ton of money, looking for their first break. Like Alomar or Martinez.

Well, I wasn't really talking about Francona, but as it relates to him, if he's out of a job, what are his other options? Usually it's a team on the skids that is looking for a new manager, not a championship caliber team. I don't have at my disposal here the list of managerial vacancies at the moment that look any better than the Sox', but to your point, if there is one, then Tito might give that one much greater consideration.

 

As for LaRussa, I would be merely banking his interest on coming to the White Sox based solely on the oft-mentioned love affair between he and the Chairman. That is the foundation of very LaRussa-to-the-White-Sox rumor that is out there, of which there are many. I also think JR would make it financially worth LaRussa's time to return to Chicago, but that's just a hunch. I could be wrong on that, as well as you could be absolutely right that in reality, a guy like LaRussa might have zero interest in coming here. But if there is interest on his part, then I think it should be strongly considered for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 01:25 PM)
I have a hard time seeing LaRussa coming to Chicago w/o Dave Duncan. They seem to be a package deal.

 

This is true. I don't think that LaRussa was ever a serious candidate anyway.

 

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 01:33 PM)
Well, I wasn't really talking about Francona, but as it relates to him, if he's out of a job, what are his other options?

 

If I'm Francona or LaRussa and the Sox are my only option, I'd probably sit out a year and wait for something better to come along. It's not like either will struggle to pay the bills in the meantime.

 

Usually it's a team on the skids that is looking for a new manager, not a championship caliber team. I don't have at my disposal here the list of managerial vacancies at the moment that look any better than the Sox', but to your point, if there is one, then Tito might give that one much greater consideration.

 

Not always. The Red Sox were a championship-caliber team when they fired Grady Little and hired Francona.

 

But even if Francona only had struggling franchises to choose from, the Cubs would probably make a lot more sense. They still haven't won a World Series in forever and they have a tremendous fan base. Francona would be a hero if he won a championship with the Cubs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs hired Epstein and he brought Francona in.

 

I just don't see why somebody like Francona or LaRussa would be attracted to the Sox. They're going to have to shed payroll soon, their farm system isn't that impressive right now, and their fan base has never been that great. They're also looking to shed salary, so paying one of those guys the top dollar that they'd command wouldn't make any sense for Reinsdorf either. It's just a bad fit.

 

 

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@nickcafardo Nick Cafardo

The White Sox would have to know they can't get Tony LaRussa before turning to Terry Francona. Do they know that? That's the question.

 

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QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 02:49 PM)
If I'm Francona or LaRussa and the Sox are my only option, I'd probably sit out a year and wait for something better to come along. It's not like either will struggle to pay the bills in the meantime.

 

 

 

Not always. The Red Sox were a championship-caliber team when they fired Grady Little and hired Francona.

 

But even if Francona only had struggling franchises to choose from, the Cubs would probably make a lot more sense. They still haven't won a World Series in forever and they have a tremendous fan base. Francona would be a hero if he won a championship with the Cubs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs hired Epstein and he brought Francona in.

 

I just don't see why somebody like Francona or LaRussa would be attracted to the Sox. They're going to have to shed payroll soon, their farm system isn't that impressive right now, and their fan base has never been that great. They're also looking to shed salary, so paying one of those guys the top dollar that they'd command wouldn't make any sense for Reinsdorf either. It's just a bad fit.

At LaRussa's age, he's not sitting out a year. Not to mention, but he probably has only three destinations left: remaining w/St. Louis, coming to the Sox, or retiring. Do you hear his name mentioned in connection with any other non-Cardinals manager-related job besides the vacancy at 35th and Shields? And this with a guy whose running on one-year contracts these days! Meanwhile, there are tweets galore out there as we speak at least talking about the Sox' supposed interest in LaRussa, so it's certainly not too far-fetched to suggest it's in the realm of possibility. Probability, perhaps not. Possibility? Yes.

 

As for Francona, who knows - you may be right. I didn't bring his name up in the first place in this discussion - you did. But since you did bring him up, I will say this, which has been said many times already, and that is he does have a history with the White Sox organization. Now how strong his ties are to the Sox based on his tenure with the team, no one really knows. But if they are strong, then the Sox' opportunity could absolutely be appealing to him, despite any payroll cuts and attendance issues the team has.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 11:20 AM)
Nobody really does, they are all guesses based on history and coaching tree. Honestly I am happy that there arent really any crappy candidates being forced on us at this point because they are cheap. Joey Cora would rank below all of the ones I have heard so far and I always thought he was the heir apparent.

 

FWIW, Davey Martinez has a hitting/bench coach history and doesnt really do much with pitching. We just happen to have a pitching coach already in place and rumors are swirling that Baines may be in line for the next hitting coach position.

 

I wasn't a big fan of Baines as a player, but I actually think he'd make a fine hitting coach. A guy that played forever has to have some insight on how to adjust one's swing.

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QUOTE (Wedge @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 12:06 PM)
How about this:

 

LaRussa

Pros

Experienced manager (I count 34 seasons)

Won two world series titles with two different teams

Won three NL pennants

Won two AL pennants

Cons

Everybody thinks he's a giant asshole

He wears his sunglasses at night

 

I laughed out loud.

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:01 PM)
The 2011 White Sox were characterized by an extraordinary amount of underachievement. Tony LaRussa, like him or not, is but a handful of wins away from being the second winningest manager in the history of the game. That means he has overseen a whole lot of achieving throughout his managerial career.

 

Now how much of that achieving can be directly attributed to him and his managerial style can obviously be debated, but his record of players coming through for him stands on its own. And I can't help but wonder, what with our more noteable underachievers seemingly tethered to this team for the next few years, if it makes more sense to bring in a guy like LaRussa with his record of achievement to try our best to get something out of these guys. Or are we really comfortable just handing this mess over to someone with no managerial experience whatsoever and hoping for the best.

 

This is not meant to be a slam on Alomar or Martinez, who both profile as effective future managers in this game. I'm just coming at this with what might be best for our particular roster of players. (And as for LaRussa purportedly being an ass, I could care less. I wouldn't have to deal with him!)

 

Damn, I just went and looked up the two ahead of him. John McGraw was the manager of a single team for 30 years, and Connie Mack for 50. That almost sounds fake.

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QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 01:48 PM)
If we all had a crystal ball and could predict the future, would anyone in the their right mind sign Adam Dunn?

 

 

*crickets*

 

Anyone????????????????????????????????

 

*crickets*

 

This guy kindly meandered on over to this board back in January to give us his thoughts on the Adam Dunn signing.

Edited by Swingandalongonetoleft

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 09:25 PM)
I have a hard time seeing LaRussa coming to Chicago w/o Dave Duncan. They seem to be a package deal.

 

there has been some discussion that duncan will be done with baseball after this year. his wife is very ill.

 

that said, i don't see larussa coming here. no special insight on that, just an opinion.

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QUOTE (thedoctor @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 04:39 PM)
there has been some discussion that duncan will be done with baseball after this year. his wife is very ill.

 

that said, i don't see larussa coming here. no special insight on that, just an opinion.

Rogers was actually speculating that Duncan could join LaRussa as our bench coach.

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Brett Ballantini

Davey 50%/Sandy 35%/Tito 15% RT @acefaulk: @CSNChi_Beatnik chances Francona comes to Chicago??

 

:pray:

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QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 03:15 PM)
I wasn't a big fan of Baines as a player, but I actually think he'd make a fine hitting coach. A guy that played forever has to have some insight on how to adjust one's swing.

 

Doesn't that mean he actually needs to talk? Not so sure I'd be sold on him in that capacity. Of course I've never been a witness to his interactions with the players...so who knows.

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