southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) If you're in Detroit, don't you almost have to? They're down to 0 bad contracts after this year with a ton of money to spend and a need for pitching. I'd love to see them lock payroll up in long term pitching contracts. That pretty much never ends well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) I'd love to see them lock payroll up in long term pitching contracts. That pretty much never ends well. Yeah but I can't think of any instance where the Tigers were ever in a position to NOT sign more guys, no matter how many Carlos Guillens they had. those guys spend like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) I'd love to see them lock payroll up in long term pitching contracts. That pretty much never ends well. Give whoever you sign a Captain Cheeseburger style opt-out after 2-3 years and let them go to the Yankees after 2 years of slimming their ERA in Comerica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Merkin Mailbag, highlighting the two most interesting questions IMO http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ws&c_id=cws Is there any chance that Mark Buehrle comes back in 2012? -- Mike, Tinley Park, Ill. There's certainly a chance, but as of right now, I would say Buehrle will be somewhere else. Of course, I thought that to be true about A.J. Pierzynski and Paul Konerko at some point leading into the 2011 season. Buehrle and his family love Chicago, and he would like to continue pitching for the White Sox. But in talking to him during the final month of the season, I got the feeling that he wants to see what else is out there in his first foray into free agency. Moving to the National League could be appealing at this point of his stellar career. Extended negotiations will probably play out along the same lines as those of Konerko, in that Buehrle will explore the open market and the White Sox will see where they stand in terms of both their budget and team direction. One thing is for sure: Teams going for a title or teams in rebuilding mode could use a durable quality starter and an even higher-quality clubhouse presence such as Buehrle Any word on what Konerko thinks of being considered to be a player/manager? -- Steve, Elmwood Park, Ill. During an AL Championship Series pregame show, Pierzynski spoke about a text he sent Konerko concerning the matter, a text to which Konerko replied that Pierzynski would be hitting ninth. Pierzynski quipped that he would demand a trade, but not before adding that he would have become the player/bench coach for Konerko's regime. It would have made for interesting media sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Merkin Mailbag, highlighting the two most interesting questions IMO http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ws&c_id=cws Just throwin this out there as far fetched as it may appear to seem initially. Does anyone give any credence to the remote possibility that Mark B. may elect to see what's out and the Cubs come calling with a nice offer (that means he stays in Chicago)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Oct 15, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) Just throwin this out there as far fetched as it may appear to seem initially. Does anyone give any credence to the remote possibility that Mark B. may elect to see what's out and the Cubs come calling with a nice offer (that means he stays in Chicago)? I can't see him doing that...not only would he hurting his Sox legacy, but then he'd be going to the Cardinals main rival as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 15, 2011 -> 11:02 AM) I can't see him doing that...not only would he hurting his Sox legacy, but then he'd be going to the Cardinals main rival as well. Not just that though...he'd also be going to a team with arguably no shot at winning in the next 2 years. They might have a legit shot if they can land both Pujols and Buehrle...but that's a $40 million a year commitment that we're talking about...and that team would still look darn weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) Not just that though...he'd also be going to a team with arguably no shot at winning in the next 2 years. They might have a legit shot if they can land both Pujols and Buehrle...but that's a $40 million a year commitment that we're talking about...and that team would still look darn weak. Agree completely...I still think the Phillies are a possible destination if Oswalt leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Oct 15, 2011 -> 03:42 AM) Just throwin this out there as far fetched as it may appear to seem initially. Does anyone give any credence to the remote possibility that Mark B. may elect to see what's out and the Cubs come calling with a nice offer (that means he stays in Chicago)? I don't see Mark wanting to play there, but even more, I don't see the Cubs wanting to spend any money they might have on him. I know the rumors are out there, but I don't see them making a free agent splash. I think for them it is Theo and then some retreads. Theo is going to be their biggest signing of this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) I don't see Mark wanting to play there, but even more, I don't see the Cubs wanting to spend any money they might have on him. I know the rumors are out there, but I don't see them making a free agent splash. I think for them it is Theo and then some retreads. Theo is going to be their biggest signing of this off season. There's reason to believe they might make a FA splash as a ticket seller, but there's plenty of reason to expect salary cutbacks too. Hard to judge that one without knowing their actual finances...but it's really hard to believe that M-56 would go there if he was their only FA splash (seriously, take a look at that roster minus Pena and Aramis), and it's really hard to believe that they have room to spent the $50 million a year or so it'll take to make multiple splashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:01 AM) There's reason to believe they might make a FA splash as a ticket seller, but there's plenty of reason to expect salary cutbacks too. Hard to judge that one without knowing their actual finances...but it's really hard to believe that M-56 would go there if he was their only FA splash (seriously, take a look at that roster minus Pena and Aramis), and it's really hard to believe that they have room to spent the $50 million a year or so it'll take to make multiple splashes. Why would they? Theo is their big splash and even the two top free agents wouldn't put them in a position to contend next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:03 AM) Why would they? Theo is their big splash and even the two top free agents wouldn't put them in a position to contend next year. Because there's plenty of room for both revenue growth and revenue erosion next year. If Theo is their big splash then it seems like the scenario you're writing about for the Sox...substantial revenue erosion, is likely...and they might not want to risk that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) Because there's plenty of room for both revenue growth and revenue erosion next year. If Theo is their big splash then it seems like the scenario you're writing about for the Sox...substantial revenue erosion, is likely...and they might not want to risk that. Well the obvious problem is that Rickets is already substantially under where revenue projections placed him when he bought the team, and he has a very large loan out against the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) Well the obvious problem is that Rickets is already substantially under where revenue projections placed him when he bought the team, and he has a very large loan out against the team. Without knowing his personal and the team's finances though, I hesitate to actively judge. You're probably right...but we've seen ballclub owners make stupider decisions than that. Hell, if he based his purchase price solely on the 2008 revenue numbers then he's not a very good businessperson anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) Without knowing his personal and the team's finances though, I hesitate to actively judge. You're probably right...but we've seen ballclub owners make stupider decisions than that. Hell, if he based his purchase price solely on the 2008 revenue numbers then he's not a very good businessperson anyway. It wouldn't have been just 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) It wouldn't have been just 2008. Yeah, but that was the "All in" time, in the common parlance. Anyone with 1/2 of an idea how the business of baseball worked could see that the Cubs would have long term payroll issues and might not sustain the playoff-season revenue estimates. I've sorta implied it too when I said that the reason the Cubs had those contracts was that Tribune Co. wanted to maximize revenue and that's what Hendry did...that does sorta suggest that they were hoping the people buying the team didn't really understand their own numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:32 AM) Yeah, but that was the "All in" time, in the common parlance. Anyone with 1/2 of an idea how the business of baseball worked could see that the Cubs would have long term payroll issues and might not sustain the playoff-season revenue estimates. I've sorta implied it too when I said that the reason the Cubs had those contracts was that Tribune Co. wanted to maximize revenue and that's what Hendry did...that does sorta suggest that they were hoping the people buying the team didn't really understand their own numbers. The recession said hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:36 AM) The recession said hello. The Ricketts offer seems to have gone through in January, 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) The Ricketts offer seems to have gone through in January, 2009. Which is when their bid was picked as the winner. Bids were due in September 08, which means that the recession didn't really factor into the actual work put in for the bidding process. It was just starting to happen when bids were due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:48 AM) Which is when their bid was picked as the winner. Bids were due in September 08, which means that the recession didn't really factor into the actual work put in for the bidding process. It was just starting to happen when bids were due. Based on the Forbes numbers, the Cubs Revenue in 2009 was up substantially from 2008. $239 million in 2009, $214 million 2008, $246 million in 2010. Obviously 2011 numbers aren't published, but the Revenue "Contraction" would be significantly delayed from the start of the recession based on those numbers...they still showed a 2.9% revenue increase from 2009-2010 in the Forbes world. The problem would be if they were expecting 10% yearly revenue increases when they made their bid, or if they didn't anticipate the growth of outflows due to contracts already on the books. A weakening in revenue associated with worsening contract status was evident the moment Hendry signed most of those deals, especially Soriano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 10:54 AM) Based on the Forbes numbers, the Cubs Revenue in 2009 was up substantially from 2008. $239 million in 2009, $214 million 2008, $246 million in 2010. Obviously 2011 numbers aren't published, but the Revenue "Contraction" would be significantly delayed from the start of the recession based on those numbers...they still showed a 2.9% revenue increase from 2009-2010 in the Forbes world. The problem would be if they were expecting 10% yearly revenue increases when they made their bid, or if they didn't anticipate the growth of outflows due to contracts already on the books. A weakening in revenue associated with worsening contract status was evident the moment Hendry signed most of those deals, especially Soriano. Nice way to contradict yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) Nice way to contradict yourself. Again... 1. If the Ricketts couldn't see the Cubs future contract issues coming when they purchased the team, they're fools. 2. The recession didn't impact the Cubs revenue figures all that much. If it affected the family's finances...their financial position was probably at its worst in March, 2009; 2 months after they were announced as the winning bid. As wealthy investors, their assets should have recovered significantly in value from that point. 3. If their finances were significantly eroded during the collapse, I can't imagine they'd have completed the purchase process. MLB wouldn't let that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 11:03 AM) Again... 1. If the Ricketts couldn't see the Cubs future contract issues coming when they purchased the team, they're fools. 2. The recession didn't impact the Cubs revenue figures all that much. If it affected the family's finances...their financial position was probably at its worst in March, 2009; 2 months after they were announced as the winning bid. As wealthy investors, their assets should have recovered significantly in value from that point. 3. If their finances were significantly eroded during the collapse, I can't imagine they'd have completed the purchase process. MLB wouldn't let that happen. Keep spinning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 There's a thread entirely devoted to the Cubs in the Diamond Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) Keep spinning... Ok, please, give me your defense of the Ricketts. Jesus Christ, yeah, it's completely shocking that Soriano and Zambrano's deals became albatrosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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