Marty34 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 @jimcallisBA: #WhiteSox, no contest. @musiqboateng: which team has the worst farm system in the majors? Wow. No contest. I'd love to hear Buddy Bell or Kenny Williams' retort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd say it's close with the Marlins. The draft last year was just horrid though for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'll reserve judgement until I hear from the spies, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Almost all of our impact prospects were up with the big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) Almost all of our impact prospects were up with the big club. I'll be interested to know who they view as our 2nd best prospect after Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Hard to disagree. The Sox haven't replenished well. Graduations aren't a legitimate justification for it being as bad as it is right now. Edited October 19, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) I'll be interested to know who they view as our 2nd best prospect after Reed. I think of Reed, Stewart, Axelrod, Viciedo, Santiago as prospects but they are all going to be MLB'ers next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 11:24 PM) Hard to disagree. The Sox haven't replenished well. Graduations aren't a legitimate justification for it being as bad as it is right now. Isn't it ironic how two of the highest rated pitching prospects we have now are the soft-tossing righties that KW was so opposed to a few years ago (Doyle and Axelrod)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:28 PM) Isn't it ironic how two of the highest rated pitching prospects we have now are the soft-tossing righties that KW was so opposed to a few years ago (Doyle and Axelrod)? I like Axelrod, his mechanics are alot like Soxtalk wonderboy Dan Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:28 PM) Isn't it ironic how two of the highest rated pitching prospects we have now are the soft-tossing righties that KW was so opposed to a few years ago (Doyle and Axelrod)? Pretty much. Neither are much to write home about either. I'm amused when people rationalize that it's okay the farm is awful, and that it's only because we graduated Sale and Morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Anyone really shocked by this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 People keep saying this year after year. That we are one of the worst. However, we seem to bring up at least one or two guys from our minor league system and they become MLB roster players...either with us or with another team (if we trade them). How do you measure how good or bad your farm system is? Can you measure it at each level? This might just be an subjective opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:15 PM) @jimcallisBA: #WhiteSox, no contest. @musiqboateng: which team has the worst farm system in the majors? Wow. No contest. I'd love to hear Buddy Bell or Kenny Williams' retort. I'm sure he considered the #4 & #5 Marlins prospects we just picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 07:05 PM) People keep saying this year after year. That we are one of the worst. However, we seem to bring up at least one or two guys from our minor league system and they become MLB roster players...either with us or with another team (if we trade them). How do you measure how good or bad your farm system is? Can you measure it at each level? This might just be an subjective opinion. Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) People keep saying this year after year. That we are one of the worst. However, we seem to bring up at least one or two guys from our minor league system and they become MLB roster players...either with us or with another team (if we trade them). How do you measure how good or bad your farm system is? Can you measure it at each level? This might just be an subjective opinion. All you hear about is how good the Royals' farm system is. Last I checked they lost 91 games and haven't been over .500 in 8 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 So next year we will have our 3B, SS (kinda), 2B, RF, C, and about 3-4 pitchers brought in organically through our system. Not really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 A flippant remark on twitter is taken as gospel? I don't think the Sox minor league system is all that great but let's see someone do the hard work of comparing it in depth to the 29 other teams. Also it usually takes several years to more accurately judge those that are considered prospects right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (SI1020 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) A flippant remark on twitter is taken as gospel? I don't think the Sox minor league system is all that great but let's see someone do the hard work of comparing it in depth to the 29 other teams. Also it usually takes several years to more accurately judge those that are considered prospects right now. This happens annually at pretty much every noteworthy prospecting site/publication. Expect the rankings relatively soon. A universal bottom 3 ranking is all but guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 06:59 PM) So next year we will have our 3B, SS (kinda), 2B, RF, C, and about 3-4 pitchers brought in organically through our system. Not really bad. I don't disagree, but this is largely irrelevant when the topic at hand is the current farm system makeup. Reed, Stewart, Thompson, Saladino, Escobar, Axelrod, Doyle? Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) This happens annually at pretty much every noteworthy prospecting site/publication. Expect the rankings relatively soon. A universal bottom 3 ranking is all but guaranteed. Most honest ones will tell you there's not much difference between say, 25 and 30, or between 1 and 5. This isn't a defense of us fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 20, 2011 -> 02:42 AM) This happens annually at pretty much every noteworthy prospecting site/publication. Expect the rankings relatively soon. A universal bottom 3 ranking is all but guaranteed. Here is the latest I could find. I still wonder how much research they put into it and contend that a lot of it is a guessing game. Just like when rivals.com does its star rankings for HS football and basketball recruits. That being said, the state of the farm system is something KW needs to address if he wants to rehabilitate his reputation with Sox fans. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/10/2011-farm-system-rankings/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) So next year we will have our 3B, SS (kinda), 2B, RF, C, and about 3-4 pitchers brought in organically through our system. Not really bad. True, but that's a team that's going to lose a lot of games so I don't know if you can really count it as a success. We'll see though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (SI1020 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:50 PM) Here is the latest I could find. I still wonder how much research they put into it and contend that a lot of it is a guessing game. Just like when rivals.com does its star rankings for HS football and basketball recruits. That being said, the state of the farm system is something KW needs to address if he wants to rehabilitate his reputation with Sox fans. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/10/2011-farm-system-rankings/ It's very much subjective but you are generally going to find similar rankings across the board. The Rangers are almost assuredly going to be in the top 5 everywhere, while the Sox will likely be in the Bottom 5 universally. Sites like Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus take it very seriously. It's what they do, it's why they exist. Also, the author of that article Frankie Piliere is reputable. Though one needs to note that the article is from February. Sale and Morel graduated and are no longer considered prospects. The piece also was written before the 2011 draft, where the Sox didn't have a 1st round pick, and at the same time spent the absolute least on bonus expenditures amongst all MLB teams. Edited October 20, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) I don't disagree, but this is largely irrelevant when the topic at hand is the current farm system makeup. Reed, Stewart, Thompson, Saladino, Escobar, Axelrod, Doyle? Meh. I think this gets at the difference between... how good is an organization at producing major league talent... versus how much talent is currently in said system. For talent in the system, the Sox are certainly going to be near the bottom on most people's lists. But as Rock pointed out, you are looking at a system that, over a less than three year period, produced its starting 3B (Morel), starting 2B (Beckham), starting RF in 2012 (Viciedo), backup and likely future starting C (Flowers - partial credit), a reliever and 2012 starter (Sale), their closer who converted positions (Santos), another likely MLB starter (Axelrod), a highly touted reliever for 2012 (Reed), their utility man (Stealth Elf, partial credit), and of course a very successful starter they traded (Hudson). That is 10 guys since the 2008 draft. How many other teams can say they did that? Some yes, many no. I think you have to look at both sides. The Sox have gotten decent performance from their system, but their depth of talent is sorely lacking. Two related, but still distinct, viewpoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) I think this gets at the difference between... how good is an organization at producing major league talent... versus how much talent is currently in said system. For talent in the system, the Sox are certainly going to be near the bottom on most people's lists. But as Rock pointed out, you are looking at a system that, over a less than three year period, produced its starting 3B (Morel), starting 2B (Beckham), starting RF in 2012 (Viciedo), backup and likely future starting C (Flowers - partial credit), a reliever and 2012 starter (Sale), their closer who converted positions (Santos), another likely MLB starter (Axelrod), a highly touted reliever for 2012 (Reed), their utility man (Stealth Elf, partial credit), and of course a very successful starter they traded (Hudson). That is 10 guys since the 2008 draft. How many other teams can say they did that? Some yes, many no. I think you have to look at both sides. The Sox have gotten decent performance from their system, but their depth of talent is sorely lacking. Two related, but still distinct, viewpoints. I was going to get into this as well with Rock's point. The system has certainly churned out some starters on the current roster, but the jury is still out on the quality of many of them. I wouldn't be touting Beckham currently. He's been rather disappointing in my eyes. Morel might be a solid 3B (and I like him), but we still don't know how he will hit. Conversely, Santos, Sale, Reed, and Dayan I'm quite confident in. Flowers and Axelrod not so much. I would agree the Sox have been improving in said regard though, and Dan had a well stated post about this topic recently in another thread. I just wish the spending and influx of talent into the system could be heightened, but that likely isn't going to happen under Jerry's watch. Cross your fingers for hard slotting I suppose. Edited October 20, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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