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Sox Winter Meetings thread

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QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:38 PM)
It makes no sense for the Sox to trade upwards of 3 or 4 guys in order to gather the funds to re-sign Buehrle. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. If they trade all of those guys, it's almost certainly a rebuild. So, what's the point of bring Buehrle back in that scenario? Because we don't want to see him in another uniform? That's childish.

You trade the 3 to 4 guys because you can receive something of value for them. Even if we're going to do a semi-rebuild, I see absolutely no problem bringing Buerhle back on a 3 year deal. I doubt he'd be willing to come back in that situation, but what would we have to lose?

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QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:10 PM)
With the numbers of teams in on him, we have to be nearing 4 year territory soon.

I'm starting to wonder if he actually prefers a 3 year deal. I would have to think there would be at least one team that would desperate enough to go 5 years. He may prefer having full control (no trade clause) and flexibity (shorter contract) over his future than simply the most years/money.

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If you believe few teams are going to meet Kenny's asking price for Danks and/ or Floyd, then the sox aren't going to blow up the team. Signing Mark would fit in with a retool, i.e. getting value for vets the sox have ready replacements for, ala Quentin and a SP like Danks or Floyd. Trading high on Matt before his arm falls off is a cost effective move, and to get a semi decent return on him.

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I just feel like Jerry probably talked to him and said to go out and test things, just ask that you come back to us before you decide and we'll see what we can do.

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QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 12:38 PM)
It makes no sense for the Sox to trade upwards of 3 or 4 guys in order to gather the funds to re-sign Buehrle. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. If they trade all of those guys, it's almost certainly a rebuild. So, what's the point of bring Buehrle back in that scenario?

It makes some sense to me for the three reasons I mentioned.

 

Think of it this way:

 

Mark + 2 ( or more ) specs from Danks + specs from Q + PR for Marks return - $ from Danks - $ from Danks.

 

It gives you money for Mark, probably helps in ticket sales, gives you prospects to help the farm... and we'd be able to have some time to see how 2012 starts off.

 

What would we be missing out on here?

Trading Floyd?

Adding salary for Buehrle when we could be shedding more than just Q and Danks?

 

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 12:38 PM)
Because we don't want to see him in another uniform? That's childish.

 

I'm not suggesting an action - just discussing a perspective and this perspective involves more than just keeping Buehrle to avoid him going to a new uni.

 

It's never childish to consider possibilities on a forum that is - well - dedicated to considering possibilities.

 

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That doesn't even take into account shedding salary from Thornton and getting something in return for him as well.

 

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“I realize who we have and hope we have a lot of them back. But if there is a time in Dallas when we talk about certain players and it’s worth making that move, I will definitely voice an opinion.” - Ventura

 

Doesn't sound from this that he's going to be the "yes man" that people penned him to be... hummm. The off-season finally feels like it's about to start. Ahhhh. :)

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Like Milkman said, if you're going to completely gut the team (I hope they do), it makes little to no sense to throw $14-$16 million at Mark when you're not going to be competing for a damn thing for at least 2-3 years. Well, other than the sentimental bulls***. Which is no way to run a successful franchise.

Edited by Jordan4life

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 01:15 PM)
if you're going to completely gut the team (I hope they do), it makes little to no sense to throw $14-$16 million at Mark when you're not going to be competing for a damn thing for at least 2-3 years. Well, other than the sentimental bulls***. Which is no way to run a successful franchise.

If they're going to gut the team - then ya, there's no reason to keep him around other then giving the sales department some ammo for ticket sales... I just don't see them gutting the team.

 

To me gutting the team would involve trading off nearly everyone.

Konerko, Q, Danks, Thornton, Floyd, Santos, Ramirez...

Package in Rios somehow if you can.

 

Hope Peavy shows up in the first half and give him away at the deadline.

Hope Dunn shows up in the first half and give him away at the deadline.

 

I don't see that happening but I could see them in classic "in-between-mode" where KW is trying to "add valuable pieces to put them in a place to win now and set them up for the future."

 

To me, such an in-between place would be keeping Mark and trading Danks, Q, and Thornton.

 

Do I advocate for such a path? No.

Do I think it's possible considering JR and KW? Totally.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:15 PM)
Like Milkman said, if you're going to completely gut the team (I hope they do), it makes little to no sense to throw $14-$16 million at Mark when you're not going to be competing for a damn thing for at least 2-3 years. Well, other than the sentimental bulls***. Which is no way to run a successful franchise.

So let's say we are guaranteed to break even with a $70 million payroll no matter how competitive we are. You still think it would be stupid to resign Buerhle to a 3 year deal? What else are you going to spend this money on? I don't see a problem having a guy who will eat 200 innings and be a positive clubhouse leader and mentor to all the young pitchers we'll certaintly have. What would you suggest we spend this money on? Obviously the draft and international free agents are no longer options. I'm really curious to hear what you'd do.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:22 PM)
If they're going to gut the team - then ya, there's no reason to keep him around other then giving the sales department some ammo for ticket sales... I just don't see them gutting the team.

 

To me gutting the team would involve trading off nearly everyone.

Konerko, Q, Danks, Thornton, Floyd, Santos, Ramirez...

Package in Rios somehow if you can.

 

Hope Peavy shows up in the first half and give him away at the deadline.

Hope Dunn shows up in the first half and give him away at the deadline.

 

I don't see that happening but I could see them in classic "in-between-mode" where KW is trying to "add valuable pieces to put them in a place to win now and set them up for the future."

 

To me, such an in-between place would be keeping Mark and trading Danks, Q, and Thornton.

 

Do I advocate for such a path? No.

Do I think it's possible considering JR and KW? Totally.

 

You don't trade Ramirez and/or Santos unless you're overwhelmed due to the fiscal-friendly, team-controlled contacts. The others are all fair game because they're getting expensive and/or are set to hit free agency. The White Sox are not spending another $130 million to finish in third/fourth place. They're not going to add anything of consequence, even if they don't make any trades.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:31 PM)
So let's say we are guaranteed to break even with a $70 million payroll no matter how competitive we are. You still think it would be stupid to resign Buerhle to a 3 year deal? What else are you going to spend this money on? I don't see a problem having a guy who will eat 200 innings and be a positive clubhouse leader and mentor to all the young pitchers we'll certaintly have. What would you suggest we spend this money on? Obviously the draft and international free agents are no longer options. I'm really curious to hear what you'd do.

 

How are they no longer options? lol. s*** is a little different now. But they're still there.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:38 PM)
How are they no longer options? lol. s*** is a little different now. But they're still there.

We will have to spend a bit more I believe, just because almost every prospect is going to be demanding the slot amount, and we have gone under on many of the guys after the first round. But that amount will be trivial.

 

The biggest expenditures will be in scouting, or at least should be. With the caps in place, you have to be sure that the guys you are selecting really are the best option, and this is especially true in the international signings portion.

 

 

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 01:36 PM)
You don't trade Ramirez and/or Santos unless you're overwhelmed due to the fiscal-friendly, team-controlled contacts. The others are all fair game because they're getting expensive and/or are set to hit free agency. The White Sox are not spending another $130 million to finish in third/fourth place. They're not going to add anything of consequence, even if they don't make any trades.

If they're going to rebuild - then they won't be winning anytime soon and I'd imagine that we could get 3 prospects back for each of Santos and Ramirez.

 

So, why not unload Santos and Ramirez for a nice haul of prospects?

 

 

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:38 PM)
How are they no longer options? lol. s*** is a little different now. But they're still there.

The point is you can no longer switch major league resources to the draft and international free agents like the Pirates and Royals have been doing. So yes, the draft and international free agency is still there and is definitely important, but they're already budgeted for and that budget can no longer be significantly increased. So again, if we can support a certain payroll while we rebuild, what would suggest spending that money on?

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:43 PM)
If they're going to rebuild - then they won't be winning anytime soon and I'd imagine that we could get 3 prospects back for each of Santos and Ramirez.

 

So, why not unload Santos and Ramirez for a nice haul of prospects?

 

I agree. Though less about Ramirez. But it's much more imperative to deal the other guys. You can't wait for the perfect haul for a guy like Danks or CQ.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 01:46 PM)
I agree. Though less about Ramirez. But it's much more imperative to deal the other guys. You can't wait for the perfect haul for a guy like Danks or CQ.

It's gonna be an interesting off-season, that's for sure... a pivotal one for the franchise and maybe a decider for KW.

 

Edit: Can it be Monday already please? :D

Edited by hi8is

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I'm hopefuly that we trade as many people as possble, in an effort to get younger. I'm ready to see a lot of new faces come spring.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:46 PM)
The point is you can no longer switch major league resources to the draft and international free agents like the Pirates and Royals have been doing. So yes, the draft and international free agency is still there and is definitely important, but they're already budgeted for and that budget can no longer be significantly increased. So again, if we can support a certain payroll while we rebuild, what would suggest spending that money on?

 

You can, they'll just be penalties. And forgive me for not giving the Sox a pass due to the new CBA when they were no tip Pip cheap for so long when they could've taken advantage. Scouting will be even more critical. They need to devote more resources there.

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Kenny Williams is not arriving in Dallas until tomorrow evening.

 

Also saw on twitter that the Sox are very interested in Kyle Drabek

Edited by SOXOBAMA

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QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:03 PM)
Kenny Williams is not arriving in Dallas until tomorrow evening.

 

Also saw on twitter that the Sox are very intersted in Kyle Drabek

I guess that tomorrow will be a quite day then.

Beckham for Drabek

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 04:05 PM)
I guess that tomorrow will be a quite day then.

Beckham for Drabek

 

I'd do that.

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QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:06 PM)
I'd do that.

Yea of course - would Anthopoulos?

 

Tangent: It has officially become the time of year in which I am glued to Soxtalk hanging out with my great friend, "the refresh button." :D

Edited by hi8is

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 04:07 PM)
Yea of course - would Anthopoulos?

 

Possibly. It isn't too one sided. Drabek has some warts as well and hasn't proven much at the Major League level yet.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 04:07 PM)
Yea of course - would Anthopoulos?

 

Depends on how they feel about Kelly Johnson. That said, I doubt AA would part with Drabek. He was the centerpiece of the Halladay trade.

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