The Carlos Quentin Appreciation Thread

[greg775]

whahahahahhaaaaaaaattt!? using STATISTICS? I thought you agreed with "statistics be damned!"

 

you also used your statistics badly. you proved the antithesis of your point... since you showed that Quentin never played a full season in his career.

 

He's missed some games because of injury, yes he has.

We're allegedly pretty deep in the outfield (til dealing CQ and til Rios decided to loaf again) so no biggie.

I'm not saying he's Cal Ripken in terms of durability.

I am saying he is an all-star, a "name" baseball player who could have gotten us some good players had we dealt him last season or had a good GM who could have gotten us some value, not two fringe prospects NOBODY in baseball is excited about. That's all.

Nice trade, Kenny.

[chw42]

Good luck my friend. You aren't going to change the minds of the pouting anti-rebuilding club.

 

I thought Greg was never going to move on from the 2005 team and its members.

 

Now, it appears he has moved on and is now inflating the legends of the 2008 division winning team.

[Dick Allen]

repeat after me: at this point in time, Quentin didn't HAVE value. Quentin. Didn't. Have. Value.

 

There you go.

What do you mean he didn't have value, you just compared the prospects received for him to Konerko, Danks, Thornton, Buerhle, Garland. 3 of which were Ron Schueler's doing. KW fleeced SD.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dick Allen

[chw42]

He's missed some games because of injury, yes he has.

We're allegedly pretty deep in the outfield (til dealing CQ and til Rios decided to loaf again) so no biggie.

I'm not saying he's Cal Ripken in terms of durability.

I am saying he is an all-star, a "name" baseball player who could have gotten us some good players had we dealt him last season or had a good GM who could have gotten us some value, not two fringe prospects NOBODY in baseball is excited about. That's all.

Nice trade, Kenny.

 

It isn't 2008 Greg, Carlos Quentin is literally a mediocre hitting DH (his hitting stats are equivalent to that of an average DH) that can play the outfield (poorly I might add). What kind of value does that really bring to teams, especially NL teams?

[Reddy]

What do you mean he didn't have value, you just compared the prospects received for him to Konerko, Danks, Thornton, Buerhle, Garland. 3 of which were Ron Schueler's doing. KW fleeced SD.

i did no such thing. I didn't say these two guys are going to pan out at all. I'm just saying that nobodies CAN turn into somebodies. That's it. And Castro was a highly touted prospect until he had a bad year. You'll cut CQ a break on his s***ty seasons but not a young flamethrowing lefty build like Jose Contreras?

 

I want these guys to be good so, so badly. Mostly just to pull this thread back up in a couple years.

[Dick Allen]

i did no such thing. I didn't say these two guys are going to pan out at all. I'm just saying that nobodies CAN turn into somebodies. That's it. And Castro was a highly touted prospect until he had a bad year. You'll cut CQ a break on his s***ty seasons but not a young flamethrowing lefty build like Jose Contreras?

 

I want these guys to be good so, so badly. Mostly just to pull this thread back up in a couple years.

A young flame throwing lefty built like Jose Contreras. Dude, you need to read up on him then start your argument again.

[greg775]

It isn't 2008 Greg, Carlos Quentin is literally a mediocre hitting DH (his hitting stats are equivalent to that of an average DH) that can play the outfield (poorly I might add). What kind of value does that really bring to teams, especially NL teams?

 

You can't tell me CQ at 29 doesn't have great bat speed and isn't still a great prospect.

I just read an article saying SD wants to lock him up with a multi year deal.

 

So now we go with DeAza, Rios and Tank? With Lilly as the 4th outfielder?

I am hoping for the best. I think the loss of CQ is HUGE to our lineup though. HUGE.

[Dick Allen]

It isn't 2008 Greg, Carlos Quentin is literally a mediocre hitting DH (his hitting stats are equivalent to that of an average DH) that can play the outfield (poorly I might add). What kind of value does that really bring to teams, especially NL teams?

Of the full time DH's, Quentin's OPS would have been second in the AL, over 100 points higher than 3rd place. I would imagine that isn't average, but again, let's not let facts get in the way of saying Quentin sucks.

[greg775]

BTW, I think I'd shut up on this argument, if the future lovers would just admit what Dick Allen alleged: This was a salary dump and in Dick Allen's words we received "garbage" in return.

Admit that, and I'd prolly be willing to move on, though it does piss me off when Sox fans mock an all-star and a gamer like Quentin.

At least the man gave all out effort and got on incredible hot streaks, unlike the loafer, Rios, and Mr. Whiff (so far), Adam Dunn.

Edited January 3, 2012 by greg775

[Reddy]

A young flame throwing lefty built like Jose Contreras. Dude, you need to read up on him then start your argument again.

my bad. got two of the guys mixed up. we got four new pitchers, don't have em all straight yet since they're no names.

 

how bout this:

 

a young flamethrowing lefty AND a guy built like Jose Contreras who started the futures game 2 years ago. I'm ok with it

[Reddy]

You can't tell me CQ at 29 doesn't have great bat speed and isn't still a great prospect.

I just read an article saying SD wants to lock him up with a multi year deal.

 

So now we go with DeAza, Rios and Tank? With Lilly as the 4th outfielder?

I am hoping for the best. I think the loss of CQ is HUGE to our lineup though. HUGE.

the first bolded is laughable. 29 =/= prospect

the second:

you're just wrong.

 

[Dick Allen]

my bad. got two of the guys mixed up. we got four new pitchers, don't have em all straight yet since they're no names.

 

how bout this:

 

a young flamethrowing lefty AND a guy built like Jose Contreras who started the futures game 2 years ago. I'm ok with it

Yet neither was able to crack SD's top 20 prospects. I know SD has a pretty decent system, but not being in the top 20 would seem to indicate future success in the major leagues is a longshot at best. Correction, Castro was #20 I believe. I find it hard to believe Carlos Quentin isn't worth something a little more than that, and really I have no problem with KW moving him along.

 

Let's see if KW spends some money soon. If he does, this obviously was a dump, he settled for less because he needed to free up money. That's not a shot, that's just reality and understandable. If he doesn't spend money soon, it indicateds he shopped Quentin around and he was worth nothing, and this was the best nothing KW thought available. These guys are longshots at best, nothing to get excited about.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Reddy]

Yet neither was able to crack SD's top 20 prospects. I know SD has a pretty decent system, but not being in the top 20 would seem to indicate future success in the major leagues is a longshot at best. Correction, Castro was #20 I believe. I find it hard to believe Carlos Quentin isn't worth something a little more than that, and really I have no problem with KW moving him along.

a guy with one year on his contract who is a terrible fielder and a guarantee not to play the entire season... where's the value in that?

 

re: your edit, fair enough. I'm hoping he's freeing money for Cespedes personally. If he does get him, it's a huge, huge win.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Reddy

[greg775]

a guy with one year on his contract who is a terrible fielder and a guarantee not to play the entire season... where's the value in that?

 

The value is that he's one of the few guys in our order who can, uh, drive the baseball and maybe scare a pitcher just a little bit.

[chw42]

Of the full time DH's, Quentin's OPS would have been second in the AL, over 100 points higher than 3rd place. I would imagine that isn't average, but again, let's not let facts get in the way of saying Quentin sucks.

 

The problem is that the only full-time DHs last season were David Ortiz, Hideki Matsui, Billy Butler and I think Vladimir Guerrero.

 

Of the 11 qualified designated hitters from last season (according to FanGraphs based on PAs), Quentin would rank 5th in wOBA and wRC+. And he's followed very closely by Josh Willingham and Billy Butler. I'd say that's pretty mediocre.

Edited January 3, 2012 by chw42

[chw42]

The value is that he's one of the few guys in our order who can, uh, drive the baseball and maybe scare a pitcher just a little bit.

Adam Dunn can do that too.

[chw42]

You can't tell me CQ at 29 doesn't have great bat speed and isn't still a great prospect.

I just read an article saying SD wants to lock him up with a multi year deal.

 

So now we go with DeAza, Rios and Tank? With Lilly as the 4th outfielder?

I am hoping for the best. I think the loss of CQ is HUGE to our lineup though. HUGE.

 

De Aza is starting in center. You don't sit him after the complete showing he put up last season. Rios is going to start since he's getting paid $13 million. You're not going to sit $13 million on the bench to start a season. Viciedo needs a spot and he'll fit nicely into RF or LF (whichever position Rios doesn't play). Lillibridge is capable of playing the outfield adequately and he showed he can hit a little bit last season, so he's the 4th OFer.

 

So you're left with the following dilemma. You already have 4 outfielders. Are you going to spend $8 million to keep Quentin even though you have all your OF spots filled and a 4th OFer? What's the point?

Edited January 3, 2012 by chw42

[Reddy]

The value is that he's one of the few guys in our order who can, uh, drive the baseball and maybe scare a pitcher just a little bit.

but not in anyone ELSE's order.

 

that's where the value matters... we're not trading him to ourselves...

[greg775]

Adam Dunn can do that too.

 

I sure as hell hope so. Last year he drove about 13 balls over the fence if I remember correctly, meaning Lillibridge would have been a much better DH than Dunn.

 

I'm just disappointed in the dissing of Carlos Quentin on this site. You'd think the guy's production was that of Adam Dunn or Alex Rios for gosh sakes.

I mean if you are going to get two scrubs like the ones the Sox got for CQ, why didn't they just deal him last year when a contender may have needed some pop in its lineup and actually given us a player or two who might be useful?

[Reddy]

I sure as hell hope so. Last year he drove about 13 balls over the fence if I remember correctly, meaning Lillibridge would have been a much better DH than Dunn.

 

I'm just disappointed in the dissing of Carlos Quentin on this site. You'd think the guy's production was that of Adam Dunn or Alex Rios for gosh sakes.

I mean if you are going to get two scrubs like the ones the Sox got for CQ, why didn't they just deal him last year when a contender may have needed some pop in its lineup and actually given us a player or two who might be useful?

 

first thing you've ever said that i agree with. but that's a moot point NOW. and NOW the best move was to trade him for the best package available.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think the problem with the pro-CQ crowd is they don't realize it's 2012 and a different game now. Guys like CQ don't have as much value as they did a decade ago. The game of baseball has become more about speed, athleticism and versatility. You were not going to get some great package, at least on the surface, for somebody as one-dimensional, injury-prone (even going back to his Arizona days) and a year away from FA. Guys like CQ aren't really hard to come by. '08 was an outlier. Competent GMs aren't going to be fooled by that year. That was his "career" year. What you've seen the last three years from him is what he is. And again, in '12, that doesn't hold as much value. If he was under control for an extra year? Yes, I would've expected better. But that obviously wasn't the case.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Jordan4life

[kjshoe04]

I think the problem with the pro-CQ crowd is they don't realize it's 2012 and a different game now. Guys like CQ don't have as much value as they did a decade ago. The game of baseball has become more about speed, athleticism and versatility. You were not going to get some great package, at least on the surface, for somebody as one-dimensional, injury-prone (even going back to his Arizona days) and a year away from FA. Guys like CQ aren't really hard to come by. '08 was an outlier. Competent GMs aren't going to be fooled by that year. That was his "career" year. What you've seen the last three years from him is what he is. And again, in '12, that doesn't hold as much value. If he was under control for an extra year? Yes, I would've expected better. But that obviously wasn't the case.

I'd think his value would go up compared to a decade ago when everyone was hitting 30 bombs a year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd think his value would go up compared to a decade ago when everyone was hitting 30 bombs a year.

 

But he's only done that once. And there's no, "Well, if CQ was healthy, he could've done it more than once." Because he's never healthy. Never has been and probably never will be. Look what happened to Jermaine Dye after '09. It's different circumstances, of course, but they're similiar players. JD couldn't even get a job. There's way more emphasis on speed and defense now.

[kjshoe04]

But he's only done that once. And there's no, "Well, if CQ was healthy, he could've done it more than once." Because he's never healthy. Never has been and probably never will be. Look what happened to Jermaine Dye after '09. It's different circumstances, of course, but they're similiar players. JD couldn't even get a job. There's way more emphasis on speed and defense now.

Yes there is, because players aren't hitting home runs at the rate they previously were. Carlos isn't exactly the slowest player in the world and he was at least average with the glove this past season. His injury problems really are what killed the Sox and his trade value I'd have to believe.

[greg775]

Yes there is, because players aren't hitting home runs at the rate they previously were. Carlos isn't exactly the slowest player in the world and he was at least average with the glove this past season. His injury problems really are what killed the Sox and his trade value I'd have to believe.

 

I just can't understand the defense of Kenny on here.

The Quentin trade sucked IMO. It's a no brainer to say it sucked. I guess nobody on the Sox we ever trade is worth a s***. To get two hack pitchers for CQ seems pretty lousy to me.

Carlos arguably was the second best hitter on the White Sox last year. I guess our organization is THAT BAD if our second best hitter can't get us a haul of anything but two players who in the words of our own Dick Allen are "garbage."