The Miami Marlins thread

[kitekrazy]

Honestly though, if a Cuban fan decided not to support the Marlins financially based on this, I wouldn't blame them.

 

They probably don't anyway. In the world of sports winning cures everything. That's how Bobby Knight lasts so long.

 

Knowing Ozzie he probably thought his comments would be favorable to Cubans.

 

[kitekrazy]

By Fabiola Santiago

fsantiago@MiamiHerald.com

 

 

A man or woman of real convictions stands by them even in the face of criticism, even if it costs them their job.

 

 

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/10/2741...l#storylink=cpy

 

I call bulls*** on that one. When it comes to the risk of losing an income people will apologize, apologize, apologize.

 

Readers' comment are always fun to read, often better than the article.

 

The article goes around in circles but doesn’t really state anything in itself. It feels more like a random facebook dribble, rather than an article by a professional journalist."

 

And this surprises you? Those are the qualifications for a typical Miami Herald Reporter. Journalistic qualities be damned, you don't need them here. That's like expecting honor and integrity from a politician in Miami-Dade County.

 

Reading other comments, people still don't understand free speech.

 

If Ozzie was from Cuba I could understand his statements that got him in trouble. Foreigners in the American spotlight aren't so quick to denounce their dictators if they have family members living there.

Edited April 11, 2012 by kitekrazy

[caulfield12]

I call bulls*** on that one. When it comes to the risk of losing an income people will apologize, apologize, apologize.

 

Readers' comment are always fun to read, often better than the article.

 

The article goes around in circles but doesn’t really state anything in itself. It feels more like a random facebook dribble, rather than an article by a professional journalist."

 

And this surprises you? Those are the qualifications for a typical Miami Herald Reporter. Journalistic qualities be damned, you don't need them here. That's like expecting honor and integrity from a politician in Miami-Dade County.

 

Reading other comments, people still don't understand free speech.

 

If Ozzie was from Cuba I could understand his statements that got him in trouble. Foreigners in the American spotlight aren't so quick to denounce their dictators if they have family members living there.

 

 

Yeah, it's the kind of rah-rah thing you usually hear from politicians about the military, until you investigate and find out that nobody in their family has ever served in active-duty combat.

 

Guillen, as one of the most famous personalities in Venezuela, has to maintain at least a diplomatic relationship with the Chavez Regime or life will be much more complicated for his family members still living there.

 

What is he supposed to say? That he wants the CIA to put together a drone/Predator attack and take out President Chavez like in one of those Tom Clancy novels?

 

 

[kitekrazy]

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicanisima-lati...astro-comments/

 

This is way over the top. I guess she's pointing out some cultural ignorance and he should be fired. It sounds like he made a mistake.

 

Funniest comment:

 

Still, if Ozzie loves a Commie Killer Revolutionary, who cares? After all, he got along with Richard Daley.

[bigruss]

Im drunk, does this mean Im on Ozzie's level? Honestly, I feel smarter than that.

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_...learn-collision

Bryant

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/1844881...ies-are-sincere

Heyman

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ozzie-G...ommunity-041012

Greg Couch, former SunTimes writer, rips Guillen to shreds

 

Guillen’s mouth was always going to bury him. And this is the moment. The Miami Marlins suspended him for five games Tuesday for his comments about Fidel Castro, but five games is not going to be enough.

 

Ozzie Guillen is not going to survive this as Marlins manager.

 

What does five games mean, anyway? That’s what a pitcher gets for throwing at a batter. No, this suspension was just Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria’s way of buying time to see if the Cuban community in Miami will cool off, whether the protests and boycotts will go away. It’s about seeing whether Guillen can fix things.

 

He cannot. But he tried Tuesday with an hour-long apology.

 

Guillen was hired to be the face of Miami’s Latin community for the team. Instead, he defaced it. He told Time magazine that he loved Castro for his ability to survive for so long. That is never going to go away, no matter what happens from here, not even if the Marlins were to win a World Series.

 

This is a permanent mark. Guillen left the team in Philadelphia and flew back to Miami for his apology. It was clear he felt bad for hurting people, and he said he has suffered for it personally. He said his remarks were stupid, embarrassing, hurtful.

 

But he was full of double-talk. He apologized to people, but what was he apologizing for? What action of his caused the hurt?

 

He said he has gotten an education in the past few days, learning how notorious Castro really is. So it was ignorance? No, Guillen said the problem was a faulty translation on his part. He said that when he was talking with Time reporter Sean Gregory, he was thinking in Spanish but talking in English, so he accidentally said things he didn’t mean.

 

“What I was trying to say is that a person who has been in power for so long and has hurt so many people can still be in power,’’ Guillen said. “I’m not blaming the journalist. I’m blaming myself.’’

 

He was talking in circles, saying he didn’t know enough about Castro, but he was accepting blame only for broken English.

 

It is so easy to hide behind that. But Guillen has lived in this country for more than a quarter of a century, and he knows what “I love Fidel Castro’’ means in English. He also knew four years ago, when he told Men’s Journal magazine that Castro was the toughest person heknew: “I don’t admire his philosophy. I admire him.’’

 

Look, it’s not up to me to say whether Guillen should be fired. It’s up to the Cuban-American community in Miami, and whether it is still willing to support a Marlins team with Guillen as the manager. But it’s hard to believe that anyone will accept that he didn’t know what he was saying.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Im drunk, does this mean Im on Ozzie's level? Honestly, I feel smarter than that.

 

 

You need to do it for 20-25 more years.

 

Perhaps that will eviscerate enough brain cells to put yourself in that category.

 

 

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2012041...orts/704109641/

Barry Rozner of the Arlington Daily Herald doubly-eviscerating Guillen

 

Forbes Magazine

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhause...-they-paid-for/

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writ...html?xid=si_mlb

SI Michael Rosenberg, linking Guillen and Petrino

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...S=Ozzie+Guillen

Wall Street Journal

Edited April 11, 2012 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

I can't see how you could suspend him for that. You could have management fire him for hurting their specific business, but I don't see that it's the league's business to regulate this type of speech. If some team hires a coach and then he comes out as a communist, is that a suspension-worthy offense?

 

Don't most of these guys have clauses in their contracts about actions detrimental to the league?

[Balta1701]

Don't most of these guys have clauses in their contracts about actions detrimental to the league?

Yeah, but do you really want to go off and start judging "Inappropriate/ill-informed political beliefs" to be detrimental to the league?

 

His statements were detrimental to Marlins marketing and ticket sales. For that, the Marlins needed to do something to make a statement to their fans. It might well not change any of Ozzie's beliefs, he might still admire Castro for various reasons, and the league shouldn't be in a position of telling him that he cant' hold those beliefs.

 

Edit: Should MLB have suspended the guy who did this, which could only be interpreted as a major statement in support of the Castro Regime?

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, but do you really want to go off and start judging "Inappropriate/ill-informed political beliefs" to be detrimental to the league?

 

His statements were detrimental to Marlins marketing and ticket sales. For that, the Marlins needed to do something to make a statement to their fans. It might well not change any of Ozzie's beliefs, he might still admire Castro for various reasons, and the league shouldn't be in a position of telling him that he cant' hold those beliefs.

 

Edit: Should MLB have suspended the guy who did this, which could only be interpreted as a major statement in support of the Castro Regime?

 

Right, no one would have really cared if he said this while managing the White Sox. In fact, we know they didn't. What he said is problematic for the Marlins because of where they are and what the demographics are.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, but do you really want to go off and start judging "Inappropriate/ill-informed political beliefs" to be detrimental to the league?

 

His statements were detrimental to Marlins marketing and ticket sales. For that, the Marlins needed to do something to make a statement to their fans. It might well not change any of Ozzie's beliefs, he might still admire Castro for various reasons, and the league shouldn't be in a position of telling him that he cant' hold those beliefs.

 

Edit: Should MLB have suspended the guy who did this, which could only be interpreted as a major statement in support of the Castro Regime?

 

Hey I am all for suspending Bud Selig. Make it happen!

[HuskyCaucasian]

Some controversy has also emerged over Guillen’s stance on Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. A YouTube video of Guillen — who was born in Venezuela — blurting “Viva Chávez” or “Long live Chávez” following his World Series win in 2005 against the Houston Astros became another source of discontent.

Where is this video? I've never seen it.

 

Found it:

Edited April 11, 2012 by Athomeboy_2000

[kitekrazy]

<!--quoteo(post=2572639:date=Apr 10, 2012 -> 11:26 PM:name=caulfield12)-->

<!--quotec-->Some controversy has also emerged over Guillen’s stance on Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. A YouTube video of Guillen — who was born in Venezuela — blurting “Viva Chávez” or “Long live Chávez” following his World Series win in 2005 against the Houston Astros became another source of discontent.

Where is this video? I've never seen it.

 

Found it:

 

If he spoke the opposite it would have been harmful to friends and relative back home.

[kitekrazy]

Hey I am all for suspending Bud Selig. Make it happen!

 

Maybe the real story was Ozzie believes Castro would make a better commissioner than Selig. It just got lost in the translation.

 

[MexSoxFan#1]

Lawl. English skillz.

At the risk of sounding like Greg, it's true Ozzie still struggles with the English language but it's understandable, he learned as an adult. When you listen to him in Spanish, it's clear he is no dummy, he's very articulate in his native language, I seen a lot of interviews of his in Spanish and it's a difference of night and day the way he expresses himself, that's why I think it's unfair to goof on him for the way he speaks English.

 

On Chavez, we might find it hard to believe but Chavez is popular with the working class and the poor, the elite don't like him, so it's not very hard to understand why Ozzie would like Chavez, IIRC even Magglio Ordoñez has said he supports HC.

Edited April 11, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[Steve9347]

I seen

hehehehe

[MexSoxFan#1]

hehehehe

Yea, when I read my post, I saw that I should've wrote "I've seen"...

 

Bastard

[Texsox]

Yeah, but do you really want to go off and start judging "Inappropriate/ill-informed political beliefs" to be detrimental to the league?

 

Yes.

[Balta1701]

Yes.

And which beliefs do you include? Why is praising Fidel Castro worth a league suspension but refusing to support the Iraq war not worth one? Why is praising Fidel Castro worth a suspension but being a birther is not worth a suspension? Do we suspend people who praise Hugo Chavez? He's quite the dictator. If a Jewish player comments negatively on the Palestinian situation, is that a suspension? Would you suspend the Miami Heat for that picture of the team in hoodies?

 

This one is a legitimate slippery slope, because I can't see how you can fairly draw a line anywhere here.

[Texsox]

But I believe we would know it when someone steps over the line. I do not believe any of the examples you just gave would be worthy a suspension. Now wouldn't you want to suspend a manager who on 9/11 expressed regret that more people were not killed? Who on 12/7/41 cheered Japanese planes? Perhaps someone who believes that Hitler wasn't all wrong or who believes that handicapped infants should be euthenized?

 

I can handle that slippery slope.

[Balta1701]

But I believe we would know it when someone steps over the line.

So how do you respond to me stating that this statement in support of Fidel is not over the line for any team that doesn't have to market to Cuban Expats?

[Texsox]

So how do you respond to me stating that this statement in support of Fidel is not over the line for any team that doesn't have to market to Cuban Expats?

 

See above.

[Balta1701]

See above.

So when Rashard Mendenhall tweeted “What kind of person celebrates death?” Mendenhall says. “It’s amazing how people can HATE a man they have never even heard speak. We’ve only heard one side.” regarding the death of Osama Bin Laden, he clearly should have been suspended.

[Texsox]

Nope, not clearly at all.

[Texsox]

Do you really want to play the what if game? You are really bored today. OK

 

Clearly someone who comes to the ballpark each day and says, I really hope no one comes today, tickets to baseball games are too expensive and only benefit rich owners, you are an idiot if you pay, but if they do, I hope a terrorist will blow up the ball park, should not be suspended.

 

Bottom line I believe there are political comments that could be so vile to warrant a MLB suspension. Don't they suspend for arguing with an umpire if it gets bad enough? Are you really saying that no statement could ever be bad enough to warrant a suspension?