Heads22 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:37 PM) Daryl Van Schouwen @CST_soxvan Sale is not entrenched in bullpen. Cooper and Sale told me today he could return to the rotation this year. I suddenly feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:42 PM) I suddenly feel better. I really really dislike how things were handled with Sale, closing, Reed, Thornton, bullpen fiasco in the last few weeks. And I'm not even sure who to blame for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:37 PM) Daryl Van Schouwen @CST_soxvan Sale is not entrenched in bullpen. Cooper and Sale told me today he could return to the rotation this year. QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:42 PM) I suddenly feel better. Just to follow up Van Schouwen said there will be a story on this in the paper tomorrow, as Ventura said on Friday his move to bullpen was for the rest of the season, but I guess they changed their mind? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 8, 2012 -> 11:43 PM) I really really dislike how things were handled with Sale, closing, Reed, Thornton, bullpen fiasco in the last few weeks. And I'm not even sure who to blame for this. The guy is really sore, and they are making sure it doesn't turn into more than that. Look at Jake Peavy. His pitching through pain caused him to change his mechanics to over compensate and he tore something completely different. This is developing a starting pitcher at the major league level. We usually aren't privy to this because normally it happens at Winston-Salem or Kannapolis type of places. Hearing that they want to move him back to starting this year, and seeing Sale talk about what is wrong, actually makes me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:57 AM) The guy is really sore, and they are making sure it doesn't turn into more than that. Look at Jake Peavy. His pitching through pain caused him to change his mechanics to over compensate and he tore something completely different. This is developing a starting pitcher at the major league level. We usually aren't privy to this because normally it happens at Winston-Salem or Kannapolis type of places. Hearing that they want to move him back to starting this year, and seeing Sale talk about what is wrong, actually makes me feel better. If that's the case, then I think it's quite fair to second guess the fact that he isn't on the DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:01 AM) If that's the case, then I think it's quite fair to second guess the fact that he isn't on the DL. Ask any pitcher, there is a difference between sore and hurt. Pitchers are always sore. The organization obviously feels it is something that got worse with high numbers of IP, and was manageable otherwise. But I am sure the real answer is the Sox have no idea how to manage their pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Its pretty obvious that despite the White Sox having better access to all the information regarding Sale, Soxtalk posters have a much better handle of what is really going on, and a much better plan going forward. The Sox are just idiots. No wonder there is zero chance this team competes for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 So is Reed the closer now? He just keeps mowing them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:22 AM) Its pretty obvious that despite the White Sox having better access to all the information regarding Sale, Soxtalk posters have a much better handle of what is really going on, and a much better plan going forward. The Sox are just idiots. No wonder there is zero chance this team competes for years. DA even you have to admit that this move was curious at best. When has a team ever moved a pitcher from starter to relief(closer, no less) as a result of a tender elbow? And when has that moved worked for the better? It just doesnt make sense, I dont see how one role is better than the other. One is stress on the arm for a long period of time(6-8 innings), the other is high stress on the arm in short doses, more frequently. I just dont see how that is expected to cure this tender elbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) DA even you have to admit that this move was curious at best. When has a team ever moved a pitcher from starter to relief(closer, no less) as a result of a tender elbow? And when has that moved worked for the better? It just doesnt make sense, I dont see how one role is better than the other. One is stress on the arm for a long period of time(6-8 innings), the other is high stress on the arm in short doses, more frequently. I just dont see how that is expected to cure this tender elbow. John Smoltz. Its not curious at all. The White Sox want Sale to be a starter, but more importantly, they want him to pitch for them. They have the information, despite what some think, this isn't Ventura, or Cooper or even KW, just coming up with the idea. I'm sure there were plenty of meetings. He's an important part of the team moving forward. I rip the Sox as much as anyone. But sometimes ripping things make no sense considering they have ALL the information and we really have NONE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) DA even you have to admit that this move was curious at best. When has a team ever moved a pitcher from starter to relief(closer, no less) as a result of a tender elbow? And when has that moved worked for the better? It just doesnt make sense, I dont see how one role is better than the other. One is stress on the arm for a long period of time(6-8 innings), the other is high stress on the arm in short doses, more frequently. I just dont see how that is expected to cure this tender elbow. They've been talking about limiting his innings all offseason. A move to the closer's role would do that. I think it's generally agreed-upon that while being a closer is not completely absent of stress, there is far less of it over the course of a season than for a starter. That's why you put injury-risk pitchers in the bullpen in the first place; Sale is definitely not the first example of that. If this move was designed to limit his total innings this year, then I'm cool with that. Otherwise, wtf is happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:23 AM) So is Reed the closer now? He just keeps mowing them down. NO matter if Sale is back there or not, I'd rather see Reed close, and Sale with the ability to be used like Matt has for years. That is in any situation between the 5th and 9th that we need a big out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:33 AM) John Smoltz. Its not curious at all. The White Sox want Sale to be a starter, but more importantly, they want him to pitch for them. They have the information, despite what some think, this isn't Ventura, or Cooper or even KW, just coming up with the idea. I'm sure there were plenty of meetings. He's an important part of the team moving forward. I rip the Sox as much as anyone. But sometimes ripping things make no sense considering they have ALL the information and we really have NONE. No. He had tommy john in 2000, and went to relief afterwards. His arm wasnt saved by going to relief, they chose to make him a reliever after his arm was damaged. Plus, in 2008 they moved him back to relief, and shortly after his shoulder blew up. Not the same situation at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:49 AM) No. He had tommy john in 2000, and went to relief afterwards. His arm wasnt saved by going to relief, they chose to make him a reliever after his arm was damaged. Plus, in 2008 they moved him back to relief, and shortly after his shoulder blew up. Not the same situation at all. If none of the news came out and Sale remained in the rotation and hurt himself, the posters who now think its no big deal to keep him in the rotation and if he blows out his elbow its no big deal, would be up in arms. The Sox are trying to prevent Sale's elbow from being operated on. Smoltz got moved to the closer role because they thought it wouldn't tax his elbow as much. In relief he doesn't have to throw 4 pitches. That also saves his elbow. Edited May 9, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:55 AM) If none of the news came out and Sale remained in the rotation and hurt himself, the posters who now think its no big deal to keep him in the rotation and if he blows out his elbow its no big deal, would be up in arms. The Sox are trying to prevent Sale's elbow from being operated on. Smoltz got moved to the closer role because they thought it wouldn't tax his elbow as much. In relief he doesn't have to throw 4 pitches. That also saves his elbow. Yes, but the situation wasnt preventative, it was reactionary, post surgery. So how is that proving anything with Sale? It doesnt. If their design is to save the innings on his arm, it is strange but whatever. But Smoltz isnt some sort of evidence that it is a proven strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think the team is just searching for it's own direction right now. Sale, Santiago, Reed, Viciedo, Flowers, Morel, and on and on. Can they cut it or not and what might be their roles? Regardless of some early success and also some failures we are in a rebuilding phase right? Let's give it some time rather than live and die on every game. I want to win too but have come to accept the phase we are going through at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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