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Steve9347

Chris Sale is now the CLOSER?!/Until he's not (Update)

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I can't believe I'm the only one who seems to be OK with this, but... I am. This year - as everyone knows - is a rebuilding year, whether they call it that or not. They definitely want Sale to be a future starter on this club. So, if he's feeling a bit tender with the new load, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as he isn't injured, and really is just sore getting stretched out, then this makes perfect sense to me. Shutting him down wouldn't be a good idea, because you still want him to build up some innings and add strength. This way, he can do that, with less risk of turning soreness into an actual injury.

 

Also, I agree with this...

 

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:44 PM)
BTW, no one has said this, but hopefully Axelrod makes the most out of this chance and can make himself a contender for future rotations.

 

As we look at 2013, this is an audition for Axelrod. Either as trade bait, or maybe even as a part of the future rotation.

 

Giving Sale say, a month, closing, then putting him back into the rotation, seems perfectly smart to me. And with guys like Peavy and Humber not stretched out to starting innings, and a guy like Axelrod in the rotation (as much as I like him, he's still got risk to fail), there will almost certainly be a chance for him to start again as the season goes on. That way, he gets closer to starting innings this year, and ideally is ready for 2013 to be a full time starter.

 

Obviously I'd rather he wasn't sore at all and could keep going, but that isn't the reality. So as long as he isn't hurt, this seems like the best move to me.

 

Flame on.

 

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:56 PM)
Would Marty and Fathom be happier if everyone just said, "We suck. We've always sucked. We always will suck. Fire everyone!" Jesus.

Marty, yes, that's been his goal since he showed up, to apply everything and every situation to arguing that KW should be fired, and try to make sure that the expectations are high enough where that is the case.

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QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:52 PM)
Agreed, I don't think many on here would argue that point with you. It wouldn't be the wort thing in the world for this team to be 10+ games out of contention by the deadline. Another .500 team without being active at the deadline would be a mistake.

 

The deadline isn't worth getting your hopes up. I don't see many teams wanting to risk their future for a 1-game playoff.

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And that'll about end my interest in the 2012 Sox. The sweep by Detroit this weekend will also help.

 

Hope Jake, AJ, Floyd, Thornton play well and get a haul in July. s*** maybe get like a Texeria deal Paulie with a year on his contract. Haha sorry made myself laugh with that, like Kenny could ever get the kind of haul Texas got...

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:56 PM)
Would Marty and Fathom be happier if everyone just said, "We suck. We've always sucked. We always will suck. Fire everyone!" Jesus.

 

The only move the last few years that Kenny made that people actually gave him credit for working out was the Sale draft pick. Everything else has been pretty awful, and it would be great to get some positive momentum going again for the organization. Axelrod and Molina have to be two of those guys that turn things around.

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:59 PM)
The deadline isn't worth getting your hopes up. I don't see many teams wanting to risk their future for a 1-game playoff.

 

Still think Gavin to Toronto makes a ton of sense.

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*sigh*

That pic on ChicagoSports.Com did me no favors.

 

But I just wonder why not put Santiago as a starter instead of Axelrod.

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Maybe Sale can close and play left field?

 

We need a left-handed bat with pop.

 

Time to see if Axelrod, Stults, Shirek, Molina or Castro can contribute because if Sale is looking at a career in the bullpen and Peavy is gone after this season, there's going to be a gap in the rotation.

 

I have to admit that I don't understand why you wouldn't hold Sale out for a longer period of time if his elbow is tender. Why take the risk? Didn't they learn anything pitching Peavy the last few years when he wasn't healthy.

 

And, secondly, as bad as this news is, unless they find a couple more bats, only Steve Carlton and Greg Maddux could save this team.

 

 

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Chicago sports continue to f*** me in the ass.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:57 PM)
Marty, yes, that's been his goal since he showed up, to apply everything and every situation to arguing that KW should be fired, and try to make sure that the expectations are high enough where that is the case.

 

I am not happy with Kenny Williams job performance. I make no apologies for that. I think it's incredibly strange the lengths you go to defend him.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ May 4, 2012 -> 10:35 PM)
He must have told them his arm wasn't feeling too hot. His velocity was down in his last start.

 

 

I noticed it was down. I think 93 tops? This is not a good thing. If his elbow hurts why keep pitching? You would think rest is what he needs

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:02 PM)
Time to see if Axelrod, Stults, Shirek, Molina or Castro can contribute because if Sale is looking at a career in the bullpen and Peavy is gone after this season, there's going to be a gap in the rotation.

 

I have to admit that I don't understand why you wouldn't hold Sale out for a longer period of time if his elbow is tender. Why take the risk? Didn't they learn anything pitching Peavy the last few years when he wasn't healthy.

 

Shirek and Stults are not really prospects. Molina, Castro, Hernandez, maybe Axelrod are the guys to watch, at least for now.

 

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 5, 2012 -> 12:03 AM)
I am not happy with Kenny Williams job performance. I make no apologies for that. I think it's incredibly strange the lengths you go to defend him.

 

 

I want to give KW the benefit of the doubt, but I wasn't and still am not happy with his job performance either. I am not sure though I would blame Sale's tender elbow on KW. I think Robin and Coop have broght him along pretty well

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:57 PM)
I can't believe I'm the only one who seems to be OK with this, but... I am. This year - as everyone knows - is a rebuilding year, whether they call it that or not. They definitely want Sale to be a future starter on this club. So, if he's feeling a bit tender with the new load, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as he isn't injured, and really is just sore getting stretched out, then this makes perfect sense to me. Shutting him down wouldn't be a good idea, because you still want him to build up some innings and add strength. This way, he can do that, with less risk of turning soreness into an actual injury.

 

Also, I agree with this...

 

 

 

As we look at 2013, this is an audition for Axelrod. Either as trade bait, or maybe even as a part of the future rotation.

 

Giving Sale say, a month, closing, then putting him back into the rotation, seems perfectly smart to me. And with guys like Peavy and Humber not stretched out to starting innings, and a guy like Axelrod in the rotation (as much as I like him, he's still got risk to fail), there will almost certainly be a chance for him to start again as the season goes on. That way, he gets closer to starting innings this year, and ideally is ready for 2013 to be a full time starter.

 

Obviously I'd rather he wasn't sore at all and could keep going, but that isn't the reality. So as long as he isn't hurt, this seems like the best move to me.

 

Flame on.

 

I'm OK with it, but a couple of things, he's the closer for the rest of the season, at least that is what CSN reported Ventura said. If he's the closer the rest of this season, I would think that would mean, he's probably considered a reliever by the White Sox from now on.

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:07 PM)
I'm OK with it, but a couple of things, he's the closer for the rest of the season, at least that is what CSN reported Ventura said. If he's the closer the rest of this season, I would think that would mean, he's probably considered a reliever by the White Sox from now on.

I didn't see it being that clear, but maybe I missed a quote.

 

The other side of this is, of course, if he simply can't do starter innings - which is possible - then this scenario works anyway.

 

Where did anyone with the Sox say this was permanent, anyway? Not trying to be obnoxious, I really just don't know.

 

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QUOTE (flavum @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:49 PM)
I just heard Coop say they're doing it for Sale's career, not for the team.

 

Truthfully, if Sale is informed and wants to continue starting at his own risk, why not let him? If anything, limit his pitch count to 90 and actually use some of those long relievers?

 

To me, there was a way to do this without taking Sale out of the rotation permanantly this season.

 

This team is going to get blown up real good by July 31st.

 

 

So what is the take on all of this? Is the move permanent or temporary? If it is made to save Sale's career it sounds like starting is out for good.

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:09 PM)
I didn't see it being that clear, but maybe I missed a quote.

 

The other side of this is, of course, if he simply can't do starter innings - which is possible - then this scenario works anyway.

 

Where did anyone with the Sox say this was permanent, anyway? Not trying to be obnoxious, I really just don't know.

Well, they've been saying this would be Sale's ultimate role with the Club since he was drafted...the implication was pretty clear that once they made the switch, it would be permanent...there isn't any benefit I can think of from switching a guy from relief to starter to relief again...not for the player anyway.

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:05 PM)
I want to give KW the benefit of the doubt, but I wasn't and still am not happy with his job performance either. I am not sure though I would blame Sale's tender elbow on KW. I think Robin and Coop have broght him along pretty well

 

Don't blame KW for the elbow. Just his plan to rebuild the team is finished and so should he be.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:11 PM)
Well, they've been saying this would be Sale's ultimate role with the Club since he was drafted...the implication was pretty clear that once they made the switch, it would be permanent...there isn't any benefit I can think of from switching a guy from relief to starter to relief again...not for the player anyway.

I can think of great benefit in certain scenarios, like this one, as I stated. However, it sounds like they are saying this is permanent, maybe In that case, well, I'm not so sure. I think it depends on his physical situation. I mean, obviously if they thought he could handle starting, they would work it out that way. They apparently don't, at least for now.

 

Also, he could go Dempster next year, but he obviously would need to build some strength and endurance.

 

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:12 PM)
Don't blame KW for the elbow. Just his plan to rebuild the team is finished and so should he be.

Just so we're on the same page here... Are you saying you don't like Kenny Williams? :lolhitting

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:09 PM)
I didn't see it being that clear, but maybe I missed a quote.

 

The other side of this is, of course, if he simply can't do starter innings - which is possible - then this scenario works anyway.

 

Where did anyone with the Sox say this was permanent, anyway? Not trying to be obnoxious, I really just don't know.

No one said permanent, but if he's in the bullpen the rest of this season, it doesn't make much sense to have him try starting again next season and expect differnt results.

 

I think the Sox don't believe he can do starter innings. So this makes sense. What makes no sense is the argument, not by you, that he not starting on a full time basis in Charlotte last season is the cause of this condition.

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 07:13 PM)
I can think of great benefit in certain scenarios, like this one, as I stated. However, it sounds like they are saying this is permanent, maybe In that case, well, I'm not so sure. I think it depends on his physical situation. I mean, obviously if they thought he could handle starting, they would work it out that way. They apparently don't, at least for now.

 

Also, he could go Dempster next year, but he obviously would need to build some strength and endurance.

Any ideas on where he might be able to "Build up some strength and endurance" if he's not starting? When I brought up innings as a concern last year poeple told me that he could be put in the AFL to get those, and that didn't happen. If "getting ready to be a starter" last offseason wasn't enough, what's going to change next year?

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You know what's really scary?

What if he's a lousy closer?

It was a pleasure to watch him start and completely make me forget bout Mark.

It's hard to be a fan of this team.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:15 PM)
Just so we're on the same page here... Are you saying you don't like Kenny Williams? :lolhitting

 

No. KW is a real nice guy.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 4, 2012 -> 07:15 PM)
No one said permanent, but if he's in the bullpen the rest of this season, it doesn't make much sense to have him try starting again next season and expect differnt results.

 

I think the Sox don't believe he can do starter innings. So this makes sense. What makes no sense is the argument, not by you, that he not starting on a full time basis in Charlotte last season is the cause of this condition.

I'd still say it makes plenty of sense to me.

 

The usual rule of thumb with a pitcher is that you want to increase his innings by 25 a year. Dropping them in half and then trying to push them back up is completely the opposite.

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