hawksfan61 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 07:28 AM) By all means, don't let reality get in the way of a good old fashioned temper tantrum. What is the reality, that guys were hurt? Do you not think there are a lot of guys playing hurt in baseball right now? We are the only team dealing with injuries, gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 11:59 AM) I am already tired of all the whining about injuries related to this "collapse". You think every team in baseball is not dealing with injuries to key players at this point in time? Dunn is what he is, a streaky all or nothing hitter who got cold when it matters just like every other veteran on this team the last couple of weeks. I don't want to hear about Konerko's wrist or hand or whatever other excuse we are going to come up with to explain away a horrible performance by a highly paid veteran player. Second half performance this year: Konerko: 255/324/426 Dunn: 202/306/442 Dunn in September: 210/319/419 Pathetic. The thing that drove me the most insane about this whole "collapse" was the total disappearance of solid fundamental baseball by everyone on the team. Stupid errors, throwing to the wrong base, bad base running, swinging in horrible counts, pop-ups with guys on third base and less than 2 outs......these are all things that we had come to expect under Ozzie and they are big reasons why we have 3 playoff appearances in 12 years. When the year started out we WERE playing smart fundamental baseball and playing good smart defense and it was FUN to watch. To see the team disintegrate in this manner is the most disappointing end to a season in a long long time. That is not to say that this team was super talented or anything, 2003 is still the greatest miss of the KW era, but this was a golden opportunity to make the playoffs, and when you make the playoffs anything can happen....etc. If nothing else it would have been nice buzz heading into the offseason and to kick off next year. Instead we get to talk about how the team played sub 400 baseball in the last month of the season in a division that was theirs for the taking. QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 12:25 PM) I'm pissed about the way the season has ended, but I was never comfortable with the lead the Sox had. I'm not surprised that they choked or collapsed or fell apart or however you want to describe it. There was about 5 minutes when they won that make-up game against the Tigers that I almost believed and then another 2 minutes when Dunn cranked two HRs to win the game against the Royals. But for the most part I've been fearing (and expecting) what has happened. What's most frustrating is that it seems like they gave up. I know they didn't, and I know a lot of the guys are hurting and tired. But watching this team the past two weeks has been depressing. There has been so much excitement throughout the year with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy recovering; and Quintana coming out of nowhere; and Sale being the starter we thought he could be. Then it all came crashing down. The Sox have been hanging in there partially due to the fact that the Tigers have been playing bad baseball off and on all season. And when it mattered, the Sox couldn't do it and the Tigers could. Tired and hurt or not, the Sox should have had a better showing at the end. There's no fight left, and now the season will end as most people predicted with the Tigers at the top. The Sox will finish with a better record than most analysts predicted, but to me that isn't enough. If they had been chasing the Tigers all season and failed to catch them at the end it would be easier to swallow. This just stinks. Man, those were two excellent posts. Wow. I loved 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 07:51 AM) What is the reality, that guys were hurt? Do you not think there are a lot of guys playing hurt in baseball right now? We are the only team dealing with injuries, gotcha. Baseball is not a contact sport, its safe to say most teams are healthy. A wrist injury in the game of baseball has to be one of the worst to have. You're wrists are pivotal when swinging a bat, you gotta get that whip to hit balls sharply. I forget what Dunns dealing with but even if he's fine, hes got no protection behind him so he's not getting the same kinda pitches he was getting earlier on when PK was performing. If you have those 2 guys healthy we're looking at a 90+ win team, easily. When youre middle of the lineup is not performing it causes a chain reaction with the rest of the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 This was definitely more of a collapse rather than the results of injuries, in my opinion. The team lost their edge for some reason, the passion wasn't there. You are fighting for your playoff lives and you can't drive in more than a single run with the bases loaded. That's pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (IowanSoxFan @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 05:45 PM) This was definitely more of a collapse rather than the results of injuries, in my opinion. The team lost their edge for some reason, the passion wasn't there. You are fighting for your playoff lives and you can't drive in more than a single run with the bases loaded. That's pathetic. Thats your opinion. I respectfully disagree. When your 3-4 hitters, the guys who got you there in the first place, are both battling key injuries youre bound to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 This thread technically shouldn't exist. Nothing officially is over. Be a homer until the end. Hope Tiggs can have an embarrassing collapse here and the WHITE SOX sweep the Cleves. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 It's probably more of a collapse brought upon the offense by the rest of the offense putting the pressure too much on themselves to fill the gaping hole left by Dunn and Konerko for large stretches of the 2nd half. AJP cooled down and probably played too much the first half (his defense until a 2-3 game stretch recently was just about atrocious), Rios couldn't carry the team all by himself, Alexei forgot how to hit with RISP and Youk was beaten down by injuries and a mystifying inability to hit against the Tigers or hit on the road, period. Beckham and Viciedo were hot and cold, hot and cold, but never consistent performers for an extended stretch. We need Dayan to put up better numbers than Crede and Uribe typically provided to be a really good team. Then you have the fact that Peavy, Sale, Quintana and a lot of the rookies in the bullpen were pushed harder than they've ever been. One thing is clear. This team was gassed and while we could have hoped with our hearts, the likelihood of a 2000 or 2008 post-season was pretty high. Still, it would have been a better reward and gotten us an extra $5-10 million in revenue, more season ticket renewals, etc. That said, it's pretty hard to make an argument that we'll be better and DET will be worse next year. That's a large part of the disappointment and frustration, knowing this was THE best opportunity until probably the 2015 season. And those pesky Royals have to start putting it together at some point, pitching-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 11:36 PM) It's probably more of a collapse brought upon the offense by the rest of the offense putting the pressure too much on themselves to fill the gaping hole left by Dunn and Konerko for large stretches of the 2nd half. AJP cooled down and probably played too much the first half (his defense until a 2-3 game stretch recently was just about atrocious), Rios couldn't carry the team all by himself, Alexei forgot how to hit with RISP and Youk was beaten down by injuries and a mystifying inability to hit against the Tigers or hit on the road, period. Beckham and Viciedo were hot and cold, hot and cold, but never consistent performers for an extended stretch. We need Dayan to put up better numbers than Crede and Uribe typically provided to be a really good team. Then you have the fact that Peavy, Sale, Quintana and a lot of the rookies in the bullpen were pushed harder than they've ever been. One thing is clear. This team was gassed and while we could have hoped with our hearts, the likelihood of a 2000 or 2008 post-season was pretty high. Still, it would have been a better reward and gotten us an extra $5-10 million in revenue, more season ticket renewals, etc. That said, it's pretty hard to make an argument that we'll be better and DET will be worse next year. That's a large part of the disappointment and frustration, knowing this was THE best opportunity until probably the 2015 season. And those pesky Royals have to start putting it together at some point, pitching-wise. Great great post. As it stands today the future looks very dim. That's as of TODAY. Things could change of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Great great post. As it stands today the future looks very dim. That's as of TODAY. Things could change of course. Yes, and no, a lot for 2013 depends on Danks and Konerko. We have the flexibility to trade Dunn/Rios/Ramirez/Thornton/Crain/Floyd and go with more youth should we choose to do so. Trayce Thompson and Carlos Sanchez both made huge strides as prospects. If Thompson can succeed at the big league level, that will make up for a lot of the production we're going to lose. That said, 3B continues to be a huge worry (most are now leaning against the YOUK option, but would like to keep him SOMEHOW) and so does Tyler Flowers being the everyday catcher, DeAza playing CF again and Viciedo hitting RHers and Beckham being consistent ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) Yes, and no, a lot for 2013 depends on Danks and Konerko. We have the flexibility to trade Dunn/Rios/Ramirez/Thornton/Crain/Floyd and go with more youth should we choose to do so. Trayce Thompson and Carlos Sanchez both made huge strides as prospects. If Thompson can succeed at the big league level, that will make up for a lot of the production we're going to lose. That said, 3B continues to be a huge worry (most are now leaning against the YOUK option, but would like to keep him SOMEHOW) and so does Tyler Flowers being the everyday catcher, DeAza playing CF again and Viciedo hitting RHers and Beckham being consistent ever again. Might be the 2nd coming of Adam Dunn. 144 Ks. But 18 SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 This is the utter opposite of the feeling I had in 2005. As happy as I was then I am as mad/sad now. This is what it feels like to follow a team that totally collapses without a whimper. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 10:12 PM) This is the utter opposite of the feeling I had in 2005. As happy as I was then I am as mad/sad now. This is what it feels like to follow a team that totally collapses without a whimper. Sad. I'm really bummed as well, but it became apparent the last month or two that this team isn't a World Series team. I did think that we were a playoff team, even up until this week before the losing streak reached the epic proportions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 09:12 PM) This is the utter opposite of the feeling I had in 2005. As happy as I was then I am as mad/sad now. This is what it feels like to follow a team that totally collapses without a whimper. Sad. I don't know. we only had a three game lead. Our schedule was tough at end with three against halos and four against rays. Seemed like we tired out more than collapsed. Most of our guys like PK, Dunny, Youk, de Aza were playing banged up. We did pretty good this season considering we had our fair share of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 what's more hilarious is some of the people here thinking this team actually had a chance in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:20 AM) what's more hilarious is some of the people here thinking this team actually had a chance in the playoffs Or that this Tigers team doesn't have a chance in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:20 AM) what's more hilarious is some of the people here thinking this team actually had a chance in the playoffs Judging how the Sox choked in "big game after big game" down the stretch, your point is well taken. However a lot of us were counting on the fact anything can happen in the postseason: Dunn might go on a tear; Paulie's wrist might magically feel better; the starters might get on a roll. Who knew that in the last couple weeks we'd become one of the bottom feeders of all of baseball? Of course, playing like this we had no chance in the playoffs. But could Sale or Peavy have been a strong 1-2 in each playoff series?? Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 No doubt this is a big disappointment, we lost many winnable games over the last two weeks with sloppy play and no clutch hitting...it may be a while before we get this close to the playoffs again if we have the type of off-season I am expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:32 AM) No doubt this is a big disappointment, we lost many winnable games over the last two weeks with sloppy play and no clutch hitting...it may be a while before we get this close to the playoffs again if we have the type of off-season I am expecting. It should be very interesting. Do they re-tool or all-out tear it up? I would think the first thing Hahn will do is see if anybody wants Dunn/Rios. If nobody wants them, there's probably going to be more re-tooling, not rebuilding. If they can trade those guys, look out. It'll be a radical rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) The Sox went 2-10 in their last 12 September games, turning a 3 game lead into a 3 game deficit. You can spin it however you want to, but that's an epic collapse. We'd have entered tonight up a game on Detroit just by going 6-6 during that stretch! And those 12 days/games are going to be about 95% of the memories I take from this season. Did this team exceed expectations? Yes. Did they overachieve when you take everything into account? Yes. But with the position this team was in a couple of weeks ago, they should have won this division, and there is no excuse for how hard they choked when it mattered most. Edited October 2, 2012 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 12:02 AM) The Sox went 2-10 in their last 12 September games, turning a 3 game lead into a 3 game deficit. You can spin it however you want to, but that's an epic collapse. We'd have entered tonight up a game on Detroit just by going 6-6 during that stretch! And those 12 days/games are going to be about 95% of the memories I take from this season. Did this team exceed expectations? Yes. Did they overachieve when you take everything into account? Yes. But with the position this team was in a couple of weeks ago, they should have won this division, and there is no excuse for how hard they choked when it mattered most. career years from rios and AJ, lots of HR's in our lineup, and had a CY candidate in the rotation, and they still couldn't make the playoffs this team is not going to win this division for at least 2 more years, bank on that 2nd wildcard if you're wanting to see this team in the postseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 12:05 AM) career years from rios and AJ, lots of HR's in our lineup, and had a CY candidate in the rotation, and they still couldn't make the playoffs this team is not going to win this division for at least 2 more years, bank on that 2nd wildcard if you're wanting to see this team in the postseason Look at it the other way. A team that had to win the division at game 160 in the weakest division in the AL, has 2 aces, two hitters with one being a triple crown candidate. Their starting rotation, 3 and 4 hitters are superior to the Sox and they almost lost. This was one of the better fundamental Sox teams coming out of the gate and that's why their record was good for a team that was suppose to be close to losing 90. Having a rookie manager with no prior experience didn't help much. The hardest thing to ignore is too many veterans can't play under pressure. They seem to have forgot how to do the little things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 12:33 AM) Look at it the other way. A team that had to win the division at game 160 in the weakest division in the AL, has 2 aces, two hitters with one being a triple crown candidate. Their starting rotation, 3 and 4 hitters are superior to the Sox and they almost lost. This was one of the better fundamental Sox teams coming out of the gate and that's why their record was good for a team that was suppose to be close to losing 90. Having a rookie manager with no prior experience didn't help much. The hardest thing to ignore is too many veterans can't play under pressure. They seem to have forgot how to do the little things. I wonder how many games Detroit lost this year due to their poor defense Detroit has a much more talented team (on paper) than the Sox do, next year it will be even more glaring as we lose guys like Peavy, AJ, and possibly more if Kenny pulls a horseshoe out of his ass and gets somebody to pick up Dunn and Rios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 10:20 PM) what's more hilarious is some of the people here thinking this team actually had a chance in the playoffs I'm sure that's what they all said about the 2011 Cardinals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 10:21 PM) Or that this Tigers team doesn't have a chance in the playoffs. I questioned the Tigers all year (and still do), but to say they have no chance in the playoffs is pure baseball ignorance. They are kind of built for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 04:53 PM) Thats your opinion. I respectfully disagree. When your 3-4 hitters, the guys who got you there in the first place, are both battling key injuries youre bound to fail. Not only that, we are talking about your 1-2-3-4 hitters all battling injuries down the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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