Your 2013 Plan for the White Sox

[pktmotion]

Trade Rios/Quintana to SEA for Vargas/Olivo/Figgins

 

Trade Floyd to BAL for Davis/Patton

 

Decline Peavy/Liriano/Youk/AJP/Hudson/Myers

 

resign Johnson/Wise/Olmedo

 

Sign James Shields

Sign Shaun Marcum

Sign JJ Putz

 

---------------------------------

CF Alejandro De Aza

3B Chone Figgins

1B Paul Konerko

DH Adam Dunn

LF Chris Davis

RF Dayan Viciedo

2B Gordon Beckham

C Tyler Flowers

SS Alexei Ramirez

 

BN Miguel Olivo

BN Dan Johnson

BN DeWayne Wise

BN Ray Olmedo

 

SP Chris Sale

SP James Shields

SP John Danks

SP Jason Vargas

SP Shaun Marcum

 

RP Hector Santiago

RP Nate Jones

RP Troy Patton

RP Donnie Veal

RP Jesse Crain

RP Matt Thornton

RP Addison Reed

CL JJ Putz

Edited October 7, 2012 by pktmotion

[Quin]

Trade Rios/Quintana to SEA for Vargas/Olivo/Figgins

 

Trade Floyd to BAL for Davis/Patton

 

Decline Peavy/Liriano/Youk/AJP/Hudson/Myers

 

resign Johnson/Wise/Olmedo

 

Sign James Shields

Sign Shaun Marcum

Sign JJ Putz

 

---------------------------------

CF Alejandro De Aza

3B Chone Figgins

1B Paul Konerko

DH Adam Dunn

LF Chris Davis

RF Dayan Viciedo

2B Gordon Beckham

C Tyler Flowers

SS Alexei Ramirez

 

BN Miguel Olivo

BN Dan Johnson

BN DeWayne Wise

BN Ray Olmedo

 

SP Chris Sale

SP James Shields

SP John Danks

SP Jason Vargas

SP Shaun Marcum

 

RP Hector Santiago

RP Nate Jones

RP Troy Patton

RP Donnie Veal

RP Jesse Crain

RP Matt Thornton

RP Addison Reed

CL JJ Putz

 

Only good things I saw were "sign Shields" "sign Putz" and "sign Marcum"

 

Keep me far, far away from the rest of that.

[BlackBetsy]

Trade Rios/Quintana to SEA for Vargas/Olivo/Figgins

 

Trade Floyd to BAL for Davis/Patton

 

I know you put some thought into this, so I don't want to be too critical here, but Chone Figgins has been one of the worst players in the league 3 years in a row. .646 OPS in 2010, .484 OPS (!!!!) in 2011, and .533 OPS in 2012. He's owed $8 million in 2013 and a $9 million option vests for 2014 if he gets 600 PA in 2013. You can bet that Seattle isn't going to give him anywhere near 600 PAs next year.

 

Olivo is now 33 years old and he only hits LH pitching. The Sox already have Tyler Flowers on the roster, so Olivo makes very little sense.

 

Jason Vargas had a 97 ERA+ last year - his 3.85 ERA was severely deflated by playing in Safeco. He is a middling to low strikeout pitcher who throws lefty, and he is historically a flyball pitcher - which is death in US Cellular. So unless we want 4 lefties in our rotation, one of them beyond mediocre, he makes little sense for the White Sox.

 

So we'd be trading an All Star OF and a decent lefty starter for really bad/expensive pieces. Arguably, it would be the worst trade on its face in recent MLB history.

 

I'm not sure there's anyone on the Seattle roster other than King Felix (untouchable) or Kyle Seager that I would touch with a ten foot pole at this point. Maybe John Jaso.

 

Floyd for Davis/Patton? Chris Davis is a decent player, but he's a 1B-DH at this point. So he would be stuck behind Konerko and Dunn. Patton is a nice piece, though. Again, not sure there is anyone on the Orioles roster I would want except for the untouchables (Markakis, Jones)

Edited October 7, 2012 by BlackBetsy

[daggins]

pktmotion, are you a Tigers fan?

[pktmotion]

I know you put some thought into this, so I don't want to be too critical here, but Chone Figgins has been one of the worst players in the league 3 years in a row. .646 OPS in 2010, .484 OPS (!!!!) in 2011, and .533 OPS in 2012. He's owed $8 million in 2013 and a $9 million option vests for 2014 if he gets 600 PA in 2013. You can bet that Seattle isn't going to give him anywhere near 600 PAs next year.

 

Olivo is now 33 years old and he only hits LH pitching. The Sox already have Tyler Flowers on the roster, so Olivo makes very little sense.

 

Jason Vargas had a 97 ERA+ last year - his 3.85 ERA was severely deflated by playing in Safeco. He is a middling to low strikeout pitcher who throws lefty, and he is historically a flyball pitcher - which is death in US Cellular. So unless we want 4 lefties in our rotation, one of them beyond mediocre, he makes little sense for the White Sox.

 

So we'd be trading an All Star OF and a decent lefty starter for really bad/expensive pieces. Arguably, it would be the worst trade on its face in recent MLB history.

 

I'm not sure there's anyone on the Seattle roster other than King Felix (untouchable) or Kyle Seager that I would touch with a ten foot pole at this point. Maybe John Jaso.

 

Floyd for Davis/Patton? Chris Davis is a decent player, but he's a 1B-DH at this point. So he would be stuck behind Konerko and Dunn. Patton is a nice piece, though. Again, not sure there is anyone on the Orioles roster I would want except for the untouchables (Markakis, Jones)

 

Was trying not to overvalue our players. I'm guilty of that at times. I like Rios but he's proven to be a liability, considering his tenure on the south side. I definitely think KW should sell high on him and I think picking up Floyd's option and attempting to trade him late in the offseason could be a good idea once teams overpay for Grienke, Haren, etc. and big spenders who fell short look for bottom of the barrel bargains.

 

I suggested Figgins, Olivo, Vargas for the past ties KW has had with those names, but would be excited if that package could fetch more. Who would want to trade though, Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Oakland ?? Still in keeping perspective, I have my doubts teams will overpay for Rios and see at any attempt trading him would be a success.

 

Floyd I think would be a great fit for the Orioles, being from the area could provide extra incentive for both sides to get something done. I think Patton would be a great addition to the pen and I feel Davis would fit well with the Sox. He played over 40 games in the outfield this past season and his career lines playing at US Cellular and more notably Kauffmann Stadium have been terrific.

 

More generally I think we trade Floyd for a pen piece and outfielder, considering Rios will be traded and the majority of our FAs are let go.

[LittleHurt05]

---------------------------------

CF Alejandro De Aza

3B Chone Figgins

1B Paul Konerko

DH Adam Dunn

LF Chris Davis

RF Dayan Viciedo

2B Gordon Beckham

C Tyler Flowers

SS Alexei Ramirez

 

Dunn & Davis were both top 10 in strikeouts this year, and we know how boom-or-bust Viciedo can be. That just sounds like an awful combination.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I would seriously consider doing Dunn for Vargas, Olivo, and Figgins if Seattle took on all of Dunn's remaining deal + paid all of Figgins contract + threw in $1M cash on Olivo. That would be a nice deal for both teams IMO.

 

Then I would look to package Vargas in another deal and spend Dunn's money on a more complete hitter or else give it to Jake to come back. Figgins and Olivo give us a PR/UT type and a backup to either Flowers or AJ (if AJ returns then you trade Flowers so he can start somewhere).

[greg775]

Ian Kinsler owed $75 million through 2017. He had a 95 OPS+ this year and next year he will be 31 and clearly on the downslope of his career....so I wouldn't take him on. Michael Young is 36 next year and had a 78 OPS+ this year...pass as well.

 

Your Kinsler statement got me to wondering again ... why do owners sign these guys to ridiculous contracts when they spend the length of the entire contract trying to get rid of the same guys cause they are overpaid? My message to moronic owners: Just.Say.No.

[JoshPR]

Jones doesn't get swings and misses on the fastball because he doesn't know how to pitch yet. He needs to elevate it more. AJ's pitch calling isn't helping either.

 

Crain's lost some velocity, but his breaking stuff is nasty when he's on and he can throw it for strikes.

Jones needs a 4 seamer to throw high in the zone, either to get swings and misses or change the eye level, throw a high 99 mph 4 seamer and if doesn't swing you come with that big curve ball, which starts high and breaks sharp so you get swings and misses too.

[justBLAZE]

Did someone really suggest Chone Figgins?

Edited October 8, 2012 by justBLAZE

[JoshPR]

Not only figgins but olivo too

[bigruss]

Your Kinsler statement got me to wondering again ... why do owners sign these guys to ridiculous contracts when they spend the length of the entire contract trying to get rid of the same guys cause they are overpaid? My message to moronic owners: Just.Say.No.

And yet you want/wanted to give life contracts to your favorite players.

 

GTFO

[kitekrazy]

Only good things I saw were "sign Shields" "sign Putz" and "sign Marcum"

 

Keep me far, far away from the rest of that.

 

Same here. This borders almost in the area of platooning Juan Pierre with Viciedo.

[rowand's rowdies]

Let's be honest, is there really anyone on this team that you wouldn't trade for the right price except sale? i would hate to see PK leave but if Arizona gives us a good package I wouldn't even mind too much.

 

Trade them all, lot of our players are at the peak of their trade value after an overachieving season.

 

Don't bring back any of the free agents, minus maybe AJ, that guy can really play ball.

 

Kenny is itching to make some moves, he didn't get to make any last season. I except major shakeups all over this roster.

[macsandz]

My 2012 plan: This team needs better baseball IQ, fundamentals and higher .OBP. This is a roster shakeup that is entirely possible.

 

Key subtractions:

 

Rios (trade)

AJ (walk)

Floyd (trade)

Alexei (trade)

Peavy (walk)

Reed (trade)

Youkilis (walk)

 

Key additions:

 

 

 

Sign Brian McCann 3/$36

 

Sign Eric Chavez 1/$1.5M

 

Trade Rios & Reed to T.B. for Ben Zobrist & Wade Davis

(Sell high on Rios and Reed. TB lost Upton. Needs OF. Davis replaces Floyd in rotation)

 

Trade Ramirez , cash & Floyd to Texas for Elvis Andrus

(Andrus blocking Profar and free agent in 2015. Allows another year or two of development for Profar. Texas desperately needs pitching. Floyd is decent get in this deal)

 

Sign Austin Kearns 1/$1M

 

Sign Carlos Villanueva 2/$5M

 

Re-sign Brett Meyers to close/start (4th starter)

 

Rotation:

 

Sale

Danks

Davis

Quintana

Villanueva

 

Lineup:

 

DeAza (CF)

Andrus (SS)

Zobrist (RF)

Konerko (1B)

McCann ©

Dunn (DH)

Viciedo (LF)

Chavez (3B)

Beckham (2B)

 

Zobrist can play 3B along with Chavez (part time). Kearns plays RF.

Edited October 9, 2012 by bucket-of-suck

[daggins]

Zobrist would be a great add.

 

The only problem is that the Rays will never trade him. He gets paid like a role player and is consistently one of the most valuable guys in MLB.

 

Seriously, his contract is one step down from the ludicrous Longoria deal. Guy has made like 20 mil over the last 5 seasons and has been worth about 100 mil.

[daggins]

Gyorko or Olt would be nice targets as they might be (or are, in Olt's case) blocked by big names.

[BlackBetsy]

My 2012 plan: This team needs better baseball IQ, fundamentals and higher .OBP. This is a roster shakeup that is entirely possible.

 

Sign Brian McCann 3/$36

 

I love this signing but he won't be a free agent until 2014. So that is kind of a problem.

[floridafan]

Zobrist would be a great add.

 

The only problem is that the Rays will never trade him. He gets paid like a role player and is consistently one of the most valuable guys in MLB.

 

Seriously, his contract is one step down from the ludicrous Longoria deal. Guy has made like 20 mil over the last 5 seasons and has been worth about 100 mil.

 

 

Zobrist is loved here in Florida. He is very active in the Tampa Bay Community. He is very much a Franchise Player similar to Longoria. Rays fans would hate to see him go!

[chw42]

My 2012 plan: This team needs better baseball IQ, fundamentals and higher .OBP. This is a roster shakeup that is entirely possible.

 

Key subtractions:

 

Rios (trade)

AJ (walk)

Floyd (trade)

Alexei (trade)

Peavy (walk)

Reed (trade)

Youkilis (walk)

 

Key additions:

 

 

 

Sign Brian McCann 3/$36

 

Sign Eric Chavez 1/$1.5M

 

Trade Rios & Reed to T.B. for Ben Zobrist & Wade Davis

(Sell high on Rios and Reed. TB lost Upton. Needs OF. Davis replaces Floyd in rotation)

 

Trade Ramirez , cash & Floyd to Texas for Elvis Andrus

(Andrus blocking Profar and free agent in 2015. Allows another year or two of development for Profar. Texas desperately needs pitching. Floyd is decent get in this deal)

 

Sign Austin Kearns 1/$1M

 

Sign Carlos Villanueva 2/$5M

 

Re-sign Brett Meyers to close/start (4th starter)

 

Rotation:

 

Sale

Danks

Davis

Quintana

Villanueva

 

Lineup:

 

DeAza (CF)

Andrus (SS)

Zobrist (RF)

Konerko (1B)

McCann ©

Dunn (DH)

Viciedo (LF)

Chavez (3B)

Beckham (2B)

 

Zobrist can play 3B along with Chavez (part time). Kearns plays RF.

 

Tampa Bay doesn't have the money for Rios and Floyd.

 

I do like the idea of Chavez and Villanueva though. I think signings like those are far more realistic and believe it or not, can make a big difference.

Edited October 9, 2012 by chw42

[Eminor3rd]

My 2012 plan: This team needs better baseball IQ, fundamentals and higher .OBP. This is a roster shakeup that is entirely possible.

 

Key subtractions:

 

Rios (trade)

AJ (walk)

Floyd (trade)

Alexei (trade)

Peavy (walk)

Reed (trade)

Youkilis (walk)

 

Key additions:

 

 

 

Sign Brian McCann 3/$36

 

Sign Eric Chavez 1/$1.5M

 

Trade Rios & Reed to T.B. for Ben Zobrist & Wade Davis

(Sell high on Rios and Reed. TB lost Upton. Needs OF. Davis replaces Floyd in rotation)

 

Trade Ramirez , cash & Floyd to Texas for Elvis Andrus

(Andrus blocking Profar and free agent in 2015. Allows another year or two of development for Profar. Texas desperately needs pitching. Floyd is decent get in this deal)

 

Sign Austin Kearns 1/$1M

 

Sign Carlos Villanueva 2/$5M

 

Re-sign Brett Meyers to close/start (4th starter)

 

Rotation:

 

Sale

Danks

Davis

Quintana

Villanueva

 

Lineup:

 

DeAza (CF)

Andrus (SS)

Zobrist (RF)

Konerko (1B)

McCann ©

Dunn (DH)

Viciedo (LF)

Chavez (3B)

Beckham (2B)

 

Zobrist can play 3B along with Chavez (part time). Kearns plays RF.

 

This is maybe the least realistic plan I've ever seen. McCann at 3/36? Rays are gonna take on salary to get rid of Zobrist? Rangers are going to move Andrus... for RAMIREZ?!

[greg775]

And yet you want/wanted to give life contracts to your favorite players.

 

GTFO

 

That's as things stand currently in baseball. In a perfect world, there would be no huge contracts and tickets would cost half as much as they do now; ditto parking and price of a f***ing hot dog.

[macsandz]

Tampa Bay doesn't have the money for Rios and Floyd.

 

I do like the idea of Chavez and Villanueva though. I think signings like those are far more realistic and believe it or not, can make a big difference.

 

I have Reed and Rios going to T.B. not Floyd.

[chw42]

I have Reed and Rios going to T.B. not Floyd.

 

It doesn't really matter. They don't have the money for Rios and I honestly think TB is an organization that doesn't give two s***s about bullpen prospects. They get effective closers out of nowhere just about every year.

[caulfield12]

I have Reed and Rios going to T.B. not Floyd.

 

 

It's a big-time risky move for a franchise like the Rays to take on any contract for over $10 million (and multi-year to boot), especially a veteran in his 30's who has had an on-again, off-again performance record going back a number of years.

 

If you're the Rays, is he the player who puts you over the top, vis a vis the competition from the Yankees, Orioles, Red Sox and Blue Jays?

 

That's definitely debateable.

 

And teams like the Rays tend to give those big contract dollars and extensions to their own home-grown players.

 

As noted, the performances of guys like Rodney, Howell, Farnsworth and Soriano would tend to mitigate overpaying for young bullpen talent like a Santos or Addison Reed...when they've been so successful unearthing it on the free agent market or waiver wire.

Edited October 9, 2012 by caulfield12