White Sox winter meetings thread...

[southsider2k5]

Mark Gonzales ‏@MDGonzales

 

Hahn: Hector Gimenez capable backup if AJ doesn't return (with Flowers taking over)

[southsider2k5]

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/

 

Hahn: Trade, free agent options "coming close to decision"

By Daryl Van Schouwen on December 3, 2012 8:26 PM

 

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Rick Hahn has meetings with agents and fellow general managers lined up for Tuesday. Whether anything comes of it, well, stay tuned.

 

"We do feel that some of the options we like are starting to come close to making a decision, whether it be via free agency or via trade," Hahn said Monday, the first day of baseball's Winter Meetings at the Gaylord Opryland Hotel. "And if we want to move forward, that very well may have to come to a head in the coming days. But we certainly don't feel any pressure that we have to make a move.''

 

Hahn talked to media after meeting with the Sox brain trust, including Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

"We had everybody in to talk about different scenarios,'' he said. "We did have a couple of conversations with other clubs and agents already today. I think being here, there's a sort of heightened energy and expectation and everyone is here in the same place.''

 

Hahn said other GMs have been asking about his pitching, which could be characterized as deep by most standards, especially in the starting rotation. Gavin Floyd is thought to be expendable, although Jake Peavy is the only other right-handed starter in the rotation. While center fielder Alejandro De Aza's and second baseman Gordon Beckham's names haven't churned rumor mills, it's not out of the question that they could be traded in a deal that makes sense. The Sox did re-sign veteran center fielder Dewayne Wise, perhaps as a safety net.

 

Hahn wasn't tipping his hand. Asked if was close on any moves, he said, "You know what I compare it to? It's like with my wife. She doesn't care where I travel to. I'm either home or not home. So either the [deal] is done or not done. It's not close. We're not on the doorstep. We're not on the cusp of announcing something. It's either done or not done. Right now, nothing is done."

 

The Sox top priority is solidyfing third base. They are mapping out numerous scenarios in the event Kevin Youkilis is not re-signed.

 

They are prepared to move on with Tyler Flowers as the No. 1 catcher if free agent fan favorite A.J. Pierzynski signs elsewhere. Hahn talked up Flowers' ability on Monday.

 

"I don't think we're going to lose anything defensively or the ability to stick to the game plan,'' he said. "Our pitchers like throwing to Tyler. Our coaches are comfortable with him sticking to the plan and he gets it. He's worked hard at that over the years.

 

"When we acquired Tyler he was viewed as a offense-first guy. Would he be able to catch? He then, for a little bit there in the minors, swung that around 180 degrees and everyone was thrilled with how he was catching and throwing and the bat suffered a little bit. We really don't feel we're going to lose anything defensively or with handling of the pitching staff, which is obviously a huge part and it's something A.J. got a lot of credit for. So it's a high standard we think he can live up to with what AJ's reputation was.''

 

The big loss will be Pierzynski's bat.

 

"Offensively, it's going to be different,'' Hahn said, who then slowed down and cautioned that Pierzynski isn't gone yet. "We're not there yet. I sort of feel like we're almost a week or two ahead of this conversation in terms of what Tyler is going to be if he's the everyday catcher. Let's see what happens with A.J. first. But Tyler is going to get on base, he's going to hit with some power. He's going to strike out a lot more than A.J., the batting average is going to probably be lower. But he's still going to be a pretty solid offensive player and I think better than what you saw in 2012 because it's tough with sporadic play time and young player.''

[LittleHurt05]

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN

 

Paul Konerko could be on provisional USA roster for WBC; Jake Peavy & Chris Sale are not. Andre Rienzo in for Brazil. #WhiteSox

 

Also was told that Jose Quintana (Columbia) & Hector Santiago (Puerto Rico) are options for their respective WBC teams.

 

Keep Quintana as far away from the WBC as possible, he doesn't need those innings. Good to see Peavy & Sale off the roster.

[balfanman]

Keep Quintana as far away from the WBC as possible, he doesn't need those innings. Good to see Peavy & Sale off the roster.

 

I despise the WBC, especially for any of our pitchers. Now if Verlander, Sherzer, Masterson, etc. want to participate, more power to them!

[GoGoSox2k2]

D'Backs aggressively shopping Justin Upton Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports that the Diamondbacks have been very aggressive shopping Justin Upton at the Winter Meetings, but that nobody has stepped up to give them a frontline shortstop.

 

 

Source: Bob Nightengale on Twitter

 

 

Why do I still have this feeling that we make a run at Upton, althought I just dont think we give up Alexei.

 

Also, says many teams are interested in Mike Olt from the Rangers. Do we have any pieces/chance to go after him besides Sale? He would like amazing at the hot corner for the next 10+ years. One can dream

[Kyyle23]

The Rangers FO have become a different animal since Nolan Ryan took over, I have no doubt that Olt will be a costly player if they make him available.

 

If I were them, I wouldnt deal him though. Beltre has never been a particularly durable player throughout his career, and he is no spring chicken.

[klaus kinski]

D'Backs aggressively shopping Justin Upton Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports that the Diamondbacks have been very aggressive shopping Justin Upton at the Winter Meetings, but that nobody has stepped up to give them a frontline shortstop.

 

 

Source: Bob Nightengale on Twitter

 

 

Why do I still have this feeling that we make a run at Upton, althought I just dont think we give up Alexei.

 

Also, says many teams are interested in Mike Olt from the Rangers. Do we have any pieces/chance to go after him besides Sale? He would like amazing at the hot corner for the next 10+ years. One can dream

 

Beckham came up as a shortstop

[Cali]

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

 

News please.

[witesoxfan]

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

 

News please.

 

Sun rose. Mark Prior broke both legs getting out of bed.

[SI1020]

This cracks me up every time. How can you call OPS a statistic that is one "small, simple number" and then make an argument that we should look at one smaller, simpler number that is one of many inputs into OPS?

 

The funny thing is that you're right, OPS does suck. But it sucks because it's inaccurate, not because it's "too simple." If you want to end this argument over context and how much you and I "feel" like each number matters, use linear weights. This problem has already been solved -- wOBA and wRC+ are the best, most complete, most accurate offensive measurements we have. There's no opinion involved, they simply weigh everything a hitter does based on how they actually affect run scoring in the current run environment. I've never heard anyone try to make an argument against this method.

Do I need to take a calculus course to understand them? Do you know how to compute them? If they are the be all and end all of hitting measurements like FIP is supposed to be of pitching I think I'll pass. As for the thread I really enjoyed TUC's rant. I'd have to disagree on Dunn though. Last off season I said I'd trade him for a bag of balls. This time I'd ask for some bats too, because he did improve somewhat. I also think the Red Sox overpaid for Napoli. Maybe he will find Fenway to his liking. Edited December 4, 2012 by SI1020

[southsider2k5]

????

 

JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm

 

Greinke market down to 1. Dodgers 2. Angels 3. Rangers in that order with possibility of mystery team Tor?Cws?Bos?.Nats out..Braves unlikely

[bigruss]

Unless his market price has dropped dramatically, I don't see it happening.

[GoGoSox2k2]

very few/if any rumors involving the White Sox.. what is Mr. Rick Hahn up to (hopefully closing in on a 3rd baseman)

[Kyyle23]

Sun rose. Mark Prior broke both legs getting out of bed.

 

and will begin kicking towels when his rehab begins

[Buehrle>Wood]

Hahn on MLBN now.

[Eminor3rd]

Do I need to take a calculus course to understand them? Do you know how to compute them? If they are the be all and end all of hitting measurements like FIP is supposed to be of pitching I think I'll pass. As for the thread I really enjoyed TUC's rant. I'd have to disagree on Dunn though. Last off season I said I'd trade him for a bag of balls. This time I'd ask for some bats too, because he did improve somewhat. I also think the Red Sox overpaid for Napoli. Maybe he will find Fenway to his liking.

 

No, not at all. You just need to actually try to learn about it before passing judgement, just like everything else on this planet. You just need to set aside uninformed pop journalism prejudices for long enough to actually see what is going on. And these offensive measures are way, way more complete and reliable than FIP. FIP is based on DIPS theory, which is essentially that there are only certain factors of pitching performance that are reliable predictors of future performance, so if you want to predict how a pitcher will perform from year to year, you should only look at those factors. DIPS works out most of the time, but there are several high profile exceptions that no one can explain (See Matt Cain, Zack Greinke for examples on both sides of the spectrum). The whole idea is to strip out the context of defense, which is not something that anyone has figured out how to do completely.

 

All of these offensive numbers do not need to make these kind of estimates. It's all based on linear weights, and it is, conceptually, very simple. Essentially, it has to do with coming up with average run values for each possible offensive event. These values change every year because the run environment changes every year. For example, on average, a homerun was worth 2.058 runs in 2012 because sometimes people were on base and sometimes they weren't on base. If a guy hit a homerun, you give him credit for 2.058 runs regardless, because that's what a homerun is typically worth. You're stripping context from the measurement -- the guy did these things, and we're giving him credit for the average amount of runs so we can compare him to other guys who did similar things.

 

Coming up with the run values is rigorous mathematics because it involves compiling a ton of information about base/out states each time in order to update the constants, but the process isn't actually complicated or difficult to understand. And, the best news is that we have these machines called computers that can do all the rigorous math, without error, if we just program them to do so! For reference, here are all the constants from 1871 to 2012: http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Hahn said their comfortable with the C position. Not so much with 3B. Looking at various FAs.

 

 

 

Hawk for the Hall.

 

 

Not much else.

[justBLAZE]

????

 

JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm

 

Greinke market down to 1. Dodgers 2. Angels 3. Rangers in that order with possibility of mystery team Tor?Cws?Bos?.Nats out..Braves unlikely

 

I'm sure it's pure speculations based on how badly Kenny wanted Greinke last season.

[Dick Allen]

One thing we really don't know is what the White Sox payroll is going to be. They always say they are right against it. Sometimes they don't spend another dime, sometimes they add $25 million to the payroll.

[fathom]

One thing we really don't know is what the White Sox payroll is going to be. They always say they are right against it. Sometimes they don't spend another dime, sometimes they add $25 million to the payroll.

 

To me, it seems like they're pretty much at their limit.

[witesoxfan]

Hahn said their comfortable with the C position. Not so much with 3B. Looking at various FAs.

 

 

 

Hawk for the Hall.

 

 

Not much else.

 

Bye AJ

[YASNY]

No, not at all. You just need to actually try to learn about it before passing judgement, just like everything else on this planet. You just need to set aside uninformed pop journalism prejudices for long enough to actually see what is going on. And these offensive measures are way, way more complete and reliable than FIP. FIP is based on DIPS theory, which is essentially that there are only certain factors of pitching performance that are reliable predictors of future performance, so if you want to predict how a pitcher will perform from year to year, you should only look at those factors. DIPS works out most of the time, but there are several high profile exceptions that no one can explain (See Matt Cain, Zack Greinke for examples on both sides of the spectrum). The whole idea is to strip out the context of defense, which is not something that anyone has figured out how to do completely.

 

All of these offensive numbers do not need to make these kind of estimates. It's all based on linear weights, and it is, conceptually, very simple. Essentially, it has to do with coming up with average run values for each possible offensive event. These values change every year because the run environment changes every year. For example, on average, a homerun was worth 2.058 runs in 2012 because sometimes people were on base and sometimes they weren't on base. If a guy hit a homerun, you give him credit for 2.058 runs regardless, because that's what a homerun is typically worth. You're stripping context from the measurement -- the guy did these things, and we're giving him credit for the average amount of runs so we can compare him to other guys who did similar things.

 

Coming up with the run values is rigorous mathematics because it involves compiling a ton of information about base/out states each time in order to update the constants, but the process isn't actually complicated or difficult to understand. And, the best news is that we have these machines called computers that can do all the rigorous math, without error, if we just program them to do so! For reference, here are all the constants from 1871 to 2012: http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx

 

While you're writing programs and punching in numbers to come with that 2.058 figure, I'll be sitting in my recliner with a cold brew and enjoying a ballgame. And the last time I looked on the only output format that really matters (the scoreboard) a home run is worth exactly 1 run with 1 run added for every baserunner. I don't need a computer for that.

 

[hogan873]

One thing we really don't know is what the White Sox payroll is going to be. They always say they are right against it. Sometimes they don't spend another dime, sometimes they add $25 million to the payroll.

This has been the Sox's line for years. They always say that they are pretty close to the top but add "if the right deal comes along..."

 

That being said, I still don't expect a signing like Greinke or Hamilton.

[balfanman]

very few/if any rumors involving the White Sox.. what is Mr. Rick Hahn up to (hopefully closing in on a 3rd baseman)

 

Maybe Mr. Hahn is going to demonstrate to Mr. Williams what stealth really is. We won't even realize a move has been made until 5 days after it happens!

 

[hogan873]

Maybe Mr. Hahn is going to demonstrate to Mr. Williams what stealth really is. We won't even realize a move has been made until 5 days after it happens!

 

Maybe he's already made a slew of trades and signings and he's hanging out at the winter meetings, laughing.