Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) As an alternative to signing Lohse, maybe they should extend Floyd now. Something like 3y/$36M. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) As an alternative to signing Lohse, maybe they should extend Floyd now. Something like 3y/$36M. There is no "alternative" to signing Lohse because Kyle Lohse was never an option and just a horrible idea in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) As an alternative to signing Lohse, maybe they should extend Floyd now. Something like 3y/$36M. Â Floyd isn't going to be on the southside next year. He is going to be one of the next pieces to leave to be replaced with the young pitching we have in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) There is no "alternative" to signing Lohse because Kyle Lohse was never an option and just a horrible idea in general. Â As they stand now, I think it's highly likely the Sox will need to add a starter for 2014. If they are proactive they can save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 03:11 PM) There is no "alternative" to signing Lohse because Kyle Lohse was never an option and just a horrible idea in general. We've got enough money tied up in this rotation...we need to rely on someone making very little to contribute, especially when you consider the deficiencies we have from a position player standpoint. Â I do disagree with you guys about his talent though...pitchers have tended to learn a few things from Dave Duncan...is it so unreasonable that he might just be a better pitcher now than before? I certainly don't think he'd have as much success in the AL as he did the last two years in the NL, but I don't think he is the chump some of you guys are making him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) As they stand now, I think it's highly likely the Sox will need to add a starter for 2014. If they are proactive they can save money. I wouldn't describe any of your suggestions for mediocrity, saving money. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) As they stand now, I think it's highly likely the Sox will need to add a starter for 2014. If they are proactive they can save money. Â Which is why neither Lohse, nor Floyd, will be on this team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) Floyd isn't going to be on the southside next year. He is going to be one of the next pieces to leave to be replaced with the young pitching we have in the system. Â We don't have any young pitching in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) We've got enough money tied up in this rotation...we need to rely on someone making very little to contribute, especially when you consider the deficiencies we have from a position player standpoint. I do disagree with you guys about his talent though...pitchers have tended to learn a few things from Dave Duncan...is it so unreasonable that he might just be a better pitcher now than before? I certainly don't think he'd have as much success in the AL as he did the last two years in the NL, but I don't think he is the chump some of you guys are making him out to be.  What reclamation project has left Duncan and sustained that kind of success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) We don't have any young pitching in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) What reclamation project has left Duncan and sustained that kind of success? Duncan wasn't even the pitching coach last year anyway. And he is going to be 34. I read the Angels weren't interested because they thought he would get tattooed in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) I wouldn't describe any of your suggestions for mediocrity, saving money. Â Look at the money free agent starters got this year. The price of mediocrity is way up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) What reclamation project has left Duncan and sustained that kind of success? He sustained it last year after Duncan had left. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) Lohse at $12M per for 3-4 years doesn't tie up the payroll. If you want a similiar pitcher it's going to cost more in 2014 and beyond This is just a terrible idea. Committing to $36 to $48 million for a marginal upgrade (at best IMO) is completely stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) This is just a terrible idea. Committing to $36 to $48 million for a marginal upgrade (at best IMO) is completely stupid. Â What's the going rate for starting pitching upgrades these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Look at the money free agent starters got this year. The price of mediocrity is way up there. So your suggestion for the "sustained success" you often mention is to spend big money, and get locked into several years on guys like Gavin Floyd and a 34 year old Kyle Lohse. The Sox were never huge players in big time free agents anyway, and their pitching staff has still had their share of big money guys. I don't know why free agency is the only way to acquire pitching, and most of the big time contracts handed out to free agent pitchers up until this point, have been huge mistakes. For every Maddux or Sabatthia, there are 5 Kevin Browns or Barry Zitos. Edited February 3, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:35 PM) What's the going rate for starting pitching upgrades these days? Doesn't matter what the price is, we don't need a marginal upgrade in our rotation right now. We already have six quality starting pitching options. Look around baseball and see how many rotations have utter crap in the 4th & 5th spots. Â I just don't get how you think paying $12 million to get slighter more production than Quintana or Santiago (and that's a maybe) makes any sense. And if you want to sign Lohse to trade Floyd then you've just weakened the rotation IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:41 PM) So your suggestion for the "sustained success" you often mention is to spend big money on guys like Gavin Floyd and a 34 year old Kyle Lohse. The Sox were never huge players in big time free agents anyway, and their pitching staff has still had their share of big money guys. I don't know why free agency is the only way to acquire pitching, and most of the big time contracts handed out to free agent pitcher up until this point, have been huge mistakes. For every Maddux or Sabatthia, ther are 5 Kevin Browns or Barry Zitos. Â No, I prefer a tear down. Since they aren't going that way and have the 28th farm system, they are going to have to spend their way out of this middle-of-the-pack mess they are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) No, I prefer a tear down. Since they aren't going that way and have the 28th farm system, they are going to have to spend their way out of this middle-of-the-pack mess they are in. Yup, nothing like going the full blown rebuilding route right after CBA changes that makes rebuilding much more difficult and time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) No, I prefer a tear down. Since they aren't going that way and have the 28th farm system, they are going to have to spend their way out of this middle-of-the-pack mess they are in. The had several pitchers contribute last year when they were ranked even lower. Your farm system ranking means nothing. The Sox have been ranked #1 and last. In the end, they seemed to get about the same out of their system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) The had several pitchers contribute last year when they were ranked even lower. Your farm system ranking means nothing. The Sox have been ranked #1 and last. In the end, they seemed to get about the same out of their system. Â I agree there's too much emphasis on farm systems, however the Sox system is baron when compared to others in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) I agree there's too much emphasis on farm systems, however the Sox system is baron when compared to others in MLB. I agree. The White Sox's system is clearly a medieval nobleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) I agree. The White Sox's system is clearly a medieval nobleman. Â ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 03:15 AM) Quintana had a few starts last season where he went deep into the game. However, he also had a few starts where he was roughed up early. Given that, he looks like an adequate although sometime shakey #5 starter. One other thing worth remembering about Quintana was that the Sox pretty much got rid of his off-day throwing routines (ditto with Sale) in the 2nd half to try to protect his arm. It almost certainly gave him a chance to stay on the field longer, but one obvious possible side-effect of doing so could be that he would take longer to get his arm warmed up and into a game on gameday. Thus...late season slow starts...might have fit into that picture. Â It was certainly easy to predict that if Quintana got through the 2nd inning...that was the last scoring the opposition was going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 3, 2013 -> 02:35 PM) What's the going rate for starting pitching upgrades these days? Â Which is why the Sox are going to be looking to the Santiagos and Quintanas of the world, instead of the Lohse's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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