southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Christopher Kamka @ckamka 10h #WhiteSox bullpen allowed 4 ER on sunday and the bullpen ERA is still only 2.22 on the season. That's how good they have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 09:19 AM) Especially because no one can actually document where this has happened in a short period of time. We are talking about the better part of a decade here, in all likelihood. If people aren't going now, they sure as hell aren't going when we are starting a team that should be in Birmingham. They are going back to the White Sox of 1990, but that was also luck. They wanted Mike Harkey but the Cubs took him so they settled for McDowell, they wanted Jeff Jackson but the Phillies took him so they took Thomas, the Cubs had needed a 3rd baseman for years, but passed on Ventura so the Sox landed him, and then they got Fernandez who was drafted previously by Milwaukee but didn't sign. A couple of those things go the other way, and the new park could have been as empty as the new Marlins stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 09:13 AM) Nobody is a good game manager when his players have a .271 OBP. Thats true, I dont blame Ventura for having to trot out a lineup with a bunch of same low OBP, hack away, low contact, high K guys. He was given this roster by Hahn and Williams for the most part. He was an amateur last year, it was obvious get got little or no say in baseball ops, perhaps that changes in the future I don't know. But i 100% blame him for pushing the wrong buttons over and over again, stop giving away outs, stop hitting and running with low contact high K guys at the plate and the league's best catcher out there, stop asking Alexei to bunt, stop trying to get runners over to 2nd and 3rd to setup scoring sacrifice or base hit opportunies for guys who either strikeout or hit a HR anyway (rendering the bunt useless).....stop being an archaic by the book dead-ball era game manager in the high scoring American League!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 It's possible to evaluate a manager whether the team is good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. Yesterday's Rios steal is a great example. That isn't on Dunn for sucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 07:08 AM) You do realize that if the Sox sell off, things like advertisers will flee along with attendance, right? Yes I do, if they sell off they lose revenue or they won't be able to obtain as much revenue from things in annual contracts like Advertising, but thats just one small piece of the revenue puzzle. Their media contract are long term and wont' change, they are getting more $$ than ever in digital media revenue through MLB.com share, they have $25M coming in for the new national MLB deals, heck they even started their own sports marketing firm named Silver Chalice I believe, to help drive revenue to the organization for something not even related to baseball........so like I was saying if anyone can adapt to low attendance and keep revenue streams in tact its the White Sox. They are and always have been very creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) It's possible to evaluate a manager whether the team is good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. Yesterday's Rios steal is a great example. That isn't on Dunn for sucking. Even when Dunn is normal he would be the last person you would roll a hit and run with. Does RV now know he is one the league highest Swing and miss % guys, one of the league's highest amount of strikeouts along with lowest contact rate. Did RV not realize Dunn revitalized the three true outcome player discussion on a national stage thanks to fan graphs, walk, K, or HR. So if all that is set in stone reality, why on earth would you put on a hit and run with two strikes and 1 out, and with the leagues best catcher back there. If Dunn does make contact it goes over the fence, if he doesn't its an easy double play b/c he swings and misses a ton. Where is the recognition of these types of things by RV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (joeynach @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:13 AM) Yes I do, if they sell off they lose revenue or they won't be able to obtain as much revenue from things in annual contracts like Advertising, but thats just one small piece of the revenue puzzle. Their media contract are long term and wont' change, they are getting more $$ than ever in digital media revenue through MLB.com share, they have $25M coming in for the new national MLB deals, heck they even started their own sports marketing firm named Silver Chalice I believe, to help drive revenue to the organization for something not even related to baseball........so like I was saying if anyone can adapt to low attendance and keep revenue streams in tact its the White Sox. They are and always have been very creative. I believe the Sox TV deal goes through 2019. I'd rather not be in 60/70 win territory when that happens to come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) It's possible to evaluate a manager whether the team is good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. Yesterday's Rios steal is a great example. That isn't on Dunn for sucking. Are you sure he called for Rios to steal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (joeynach @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) Even when Dunn is normal he would be the last person you would roll a hit and run with. Does RV now know he is one the league highest Swing and miss % guys, one of the league's highest amount of strikeouts along with lowest contact rate. Did RV not realize Dunn revitalized the three true outcome player discussion on a national stage thanks to fan graphs, walk, K, or HR. So if all that is set in stone reality, why on earth would you put on a hit and run with two strikes and 1 out, and with the leagues best catcher back there. If Dunn does make contact it goes over the fence, if he doesn't its an easy double play b/c he swings and misses a ton. Where is the recognition of these types of things by RV? It's clear Robin knows far less about managing a MLB than about 95% of this board. I find it quite ironic that you are calling Ventura clueless and on the other hand saying he called for a hit and run in that situation. Konerko wasn't running at first. I would imagine Rios missed a sign or was running on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Are you sure he called for Rios to steal? Is Robin Ventura the manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) I believe the Sox TV deal goes through 2019. I'd rather not be in 60/70 win territory when that happens to come up. That's why you start now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Doumit was behind the plate yesterday, not Mauer. Not that it takes any validity from your post but it wasn't some All-Star catcher. Edited April 22, 2013 by pettie4sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) I believe the Sox TV deal goes through 2019. I'd rather not be in 60/70 win territory when that happens to come up. We have a lot of leverage in those negotiations, since we own 40% of the network itself. Screw over the Sox, they run the danger of losing the Bulls. Who even knows at that time what the RSN landscape will look like, and how many bidders there might be...? Live sports are always going to be an attractive option compared to sitcom programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Are you sure he called for Rios to steal? No, just assuming given his track record on no sense making managerial moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:12 AM) Is Robin Ventura the manager? So it is beyond the realm of possibility that Rios missed a sign or was running on his own. The fact is, it is far more likely than Robin having him steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) It's clear Robin knows far less about managing a MLB than about 95% of this board. I find it quite ironic that you are calling Ventura clueless and on the other hand saying he called for a hit and run in that situation. Konerko wasn't running at first. I would imagine Rios missed a sign or was running on his own. You realize I have referred to multiple incidents, not just the Rios steal of 3rd. Sure he could have missed a sign, but why are we feeding signs with runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out for Dunn, the point of that and paying him all that $$ is to try and hit a 3 run homer there. RV's cluelessness to me extends are beyond this one call. Did you see my comments on his calling for the Alexei bunt vs. Masterson in that Indians game after the leadoff double....completely mind boggling. Did you see his call to walk Kipnis to get to Swisher. Kipnis was something like 1-16 at that point. Do you remember last September at all. After about 5 months of basically not interfering with the offense, the Sox find themselves in a tightened race with Detroit. The offense tightened up a bit in September what did RV do....called for a hit and runs, a steal, a Sac Bunt in just about every situation where it would even be considered. The team got where it was getting guys to come through with big hits and timely HRs. RV stayed out of the way and let the offense produce, I even called him the Republican of managing (since he stayed out of the way, austerious like do nothing approach) and it was working. We get into a dogfight and all of sudden we are giving away outs in 0-1 games in the 4th with bunts and steals, getting De Aza thrown out trying to steal for example in the 4th inning after a leadoff single/walk with all the power coming up behind him. Why are you giving outs away, or risking giving them away with the big boys coming up who hit the ball over the fence more than they single home a runner from 2nd anyway. Asking guys who can pop the ball over the fence like AJ and Alexei to bunt a guy over in a 0-0 game in the 3rd inning after a leadoff single, etc etc. WHY?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) So it is beyond the realm of possibility that Rios missed a sign or was running on his own. The fact is, it is far more likely than Robin having him steal. Why would Rios run on his own, he knows who is up, he knows his teammates, he knows who is behind the plate (yes I know its Doumit not Mauer now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) So it is beyond the realm of possibility that Rios missed a sign or was running on his own. The fact is, it is far more likely than Robin having him steal. It's possible, but to say it's more likely that's what happened than Ventura sending him is completely stupid. Even if it was just a green light for Rios to go if he felt it, that would be stupid enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) It's possible, but to say it's more likely that's what happened than Ventura sending him is completely stupid. Even if it was just a green light for Rios to go if he felt it, that would be stupid enough. No it's not completely stupid. Robin Ventura knows more about baseball than you or me. To think he would send Rios in that situation is the stupid thing. The runner on first didn't move. I don't know, maybe they have a signal for the 3rd base coach that says, runner on 2nd, you steal, runner on first, hold your ground. Edited April 22, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (joeynach @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) Why would Rios run on his own, he knows who is up, he knows his teammates, he knows who is behind the plate (yes I know its Doumit not Mauer now). I would take Robin Ventura's baseball acumen over Alex Rios'. You want to blame Ventura, but again, the runner on first base did not run. Rios either went on his own or missed a sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 But one of our best hitters this season, Alexei Ramirez was coming up next... It didn't make any sense in that situation. How many times have singles been hit where Rios couldn't score from 2B? I get the fact that there could be a wild pitch or passed ball, but that's happened what, 2 times this year so far with a runner on 3rd? You always have a WIDE OPEN throwing lane with Dunn in the LH batter's box. And Rios has never been AS GOOD stealing 3B as 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Dunn is a bum and shouldn't have struck out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:21 AM) That's why you start now. Which means, based on baseball history, you would be in the middle of it when your TV contract comes up. Not too smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Which means, based on baseball history, you would be in the middle of it when your TV contract comes up. Not too smart. JR has all the leverage. He owns/controls 40% of ComCast, and has the Bulls, most importantly... There's nothing to prevent the White Sox from creating their own RSN, bundling the Sox and Bulls together...at some point. 2019 is a LONG way from now, anyway. If that's the primary reason for NOT rebuilding, they should change to a different business strategy ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) Dunn is a bum and shouldn't have struck out. Thats what he does, a lot, why are you mad at a guy for doing something he has based his entire career on. Either strikeout or hit a HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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