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QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Aug 23, 2013 -> 04:28 PM)

 

Really?

 

Hand-built wooden cars using off-the-shelf parts from other manufacturers doesn't scream new or innovative, even if they are cool/fun cars.

 

Do you have any articles on that cool MB tech you were talking about a few pages back?

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Hand-built wooden cars using off-the-shelf parts from other manufacturers doesn't scream new or innovative, even if they are cool/fun cars.

 

Do you have any articles on that cool MB tech you were talking about a few pages back?

There's a lot going on there. The wooden bodies help make all aluminum chassis possible and their opinions on luxury are (at least to me) so refreshing to hear. That quote about the BMW engineer who said "I finally get to feel my engine" cracks me up.

 

I dont mean to plug /Drive again, but

is great for the SLS electric. If you really dont care much about the road testing stuff skip to 10:00, he talks to someone from Mercedes who just blows your mind repeatedly with the kind of technology behind the thing.

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QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Aug 23, 2013 -> 04:42 PM)
There's a lot going on there. The wooden bodies help make all aluminum chassis possible and their opinions on luxury are (at least to me) so refreshing to hear. That quote about the BMW engineer who said "I finally get to feel my engine" cracks me up.

 

I dont mean to plug /Drive again, but

is great for the SLS electric. If you really dont care much about the road testing stuff skip to 10:00, he talks to someone from Mercedes who just blows your mind repeatedly with the kind of technology behind the thing.

 

The Ford GT had an aluminum spaceframe chassis a decade ago.

 

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Those cars are definitely a 40s type deal.

 

If I bought one, I'd get the Aero Supersport simply because it looks like a good blend of 40s and modern cars.

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I have a lot of auto companies as my clients. The two most impressive roadmaps I've seen as well as concepts are BMW and Audi.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 23, 2013 -> 02:19 PM)
So I take it that you don't think electric cars are the future?

 

Gas isn't a sustainable resource. We're going to have to transfer to another source of fuel sooner or later. It's just a matter of time.

Where do you think nearly all of our electricity comes from? :)

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 10:28 AM)
Where do you think nearly all of our electricity comes from? :)

 

Not all electricity comes from fossil fuels.

 

With gasoline, it's a one way street. As solar panels get less expensive and the wind turbine technology gets better, there will be a lesser reliance on electricity from fossil fuels.

 

It's the next logical step in energy.

Edited by chw42

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 02:38 PM)
Not all electricity comes from fossil fuels.

 

With gasoline, it's a one way street. As solar panels get less expensive and the wind turbine technology gets better, there will be a lesser reliance on electricity from fossil fuels.

 

It's the next logical step in energy.

This idea that electric vehicles are running off renewable energy is just a fantasy. Guess when most people currently charge their electric vehicles? Overnight. In fact, utility companies encourage this with special rates for overnight hours for users of electric vehicles. They do this because they need consumption during those hours to keep their base load generation online without incurring imbalance penalties from their control areas. Guess what's not running overnight? Solar plants. While wind tends to increase during the evening, utilities are currently required to carry adequate reserves (fossil fueled generation) in case the wind stops.

 

Add to this equation cheap natural gas and government incentives in renewables dwindling, and you are looking at quite some time before electric cars are doing anything differently than gasoline powered vehicles.

Edited by iamshack

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 05:45 PM)
This idea that electric vehicles are running off renewable energy is just a fantasy. Guess when most people currently charge their electric vehicles? Overnight. In fact, utility companies encourage this with special rates for overnight hours for users of electric vehicles. They do this because they need consumption during those hours to keep their base load generation online without incurring imbalance penalties from their control areas. Guess what's not running overnight? Solar plants. While wind tends to increase during the evening, utilities are currently required to carry adequate reserves (fossil fuels) in case the wind stops.

 

Add to this equation cheap natural gas and government incentives in renewables dwindling, and you are looking at quite some time before electric cars are doing anything differently than gasoline powered vehicles.

 

Define quite some time.

 

Because I never said this was going to happen overnight.

Edited by chw42

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 04:20 PM)
Define quite some time.

 

Because I never said this was going to happen overnight.

Enough time that I don't think it's clear that electric cars are the cars of the future, if you expect to see much of a difference from an environmental perspective.

 

Although, who knows...maybe someone comes up with a solar electric charger or some s***.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 04:27 PM)
Anyone have any experience with Volkswagen TDI's? It's about time to get rid of my current car and I'm thinking about a Jetta TDI.

Everything I've ever heard/read is that they are outstanding.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 07:28 PM)
Enough time that I don't think it's clear that electric cars are the cars of the future, if you expect to see much of a difference from an environmental perspective.

 

Although, who knows...maybe someone comes up with a solar electric charger or some s***.

(Just so it's said, there's a huge environmental difference from not having to power down and power up a large power plant every day. Create overnight demand for some of the extra energy and you make the 2nd law of thermodynamics work for you).

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 04:30 PM)
(Just so it's said, there's a huge environmental difference from not having to power down and power up a large power plant every day. Create overnight demand for some of the extra energy and you make the 2nd law of thermodynamics work for you).

Well there's a huge difference in cost, too. It wouldn't make a difference regardless of electric vehicle charging (unless electric vehicles really, really catch on), but increasing off-peak consumption can only serve to prolong the life of our older, least efficient, and dirtiest conventional resources.

Edited by iamshack

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 06:28 PM)
Enough time that I don't think it's clear that electric cars are the cars of the future, if you expect to see much of a difference from an environmental perspective.

 

Although, who knows...maybe someone comes up with a solar electric charger or some s***.

 

Tell that to the people who drove up Tesla's stock prices by $120 this year.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 04:48 PM)
Tell that to the people who drove up Tesla's stock prices by $120 this year.

Do you think most of the folks buying those have a true understanding of the environmental impacts of the vehicle?

 

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 07:01 PM)
Do you think most of the folks buying those have a true understanding of the environmental impacts of the vehicle?

 

Maybe not all, but a $120 increase in price per share says a lot.

 

Wall Street may fall in love with certain things, but they're not totally oblivious.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 06:08 PM)
Maybe not all, but a $120 increase in price per share says a lot.

 

Wall Street may fall in love with certain things, but they're not totally oblivious.

Wind generation is closer to taking a step back right now than forward. Solar generation may work for incredibly liberal states like California where the cost is overlooked,but it isn't close to feasible until some kind of efficient solar storage technology is developed.

 

We haven't even touched on the grid issues yet.

 

Btw, don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and I'm not commenting on their product, other than to say that from an environmental perspective, it's not much different than gasoline engines right now and in the foreseeable future.

Edited by iamshack

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 08:43 PM)
Wind generation is closer to taking a step back right now than forward. Solar generation may work for incredibly liberal states like California where the cost is overlooked,but it isn't close to feasible until some kind of efficient solar storage technology is developed.

 

We haven't even touched on the grid issues yet.

 

Btw, don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and I'm not commenting on their product, other than to say that from an environmental perspective, it's not much different than gasoline engines right now and in the foreseeable future.

 

You never know what a 5 year time span can accomplish when it comes to technology.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 09:25 PM)
You never know what a 5 year time span can accomplish when it comes to technology.

This has been the golden goose of solar tech for 15 years now.

 

No one in the industry is banking on this happening within the next 5 years.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 24, 2013 -> 05:45 PM)
This idea that electric vehicles are running off renewable energy is just a fantasy. Guess when most people currently charge their electric vehicles? Overnight. In fact, utility companies encourage this with special rates for overnight hours for users of electric vehicles. They do this because they need consumption during those hours to keep their base load generation online without incurring imbalance penalties from their control areas. Guess what's not running overnight? Solar plants. While wind tends to increase during the evening, utilities are currently required to carry adequate reserves (fossil fueled generation) in case the wind stops.

 

Add to this equation cheap natural gas and government incentives in renewables dwindling, and you are looking at quite some time before electric cars are doing anything differently than gasoline powered vehicles.

On the one hand, it is important to point out that most of the utility-generated electricity still comes from fossil fuels. You are correct that using an electric car doesn't mean you are using 100% green energy.

 

But you are also using a canard here that provides a false choice. First of all, even if on 100% fossil fuels, energy generated at the utility level is far more efficient than in individual gas combustion engines, so the move to an electric car does indeed reduce emissions and use of oil. Second, the utilities can, and slowly do, change over to alternative sources over time. So the more people rely on the grid instead of inefficient vehicular engines, the fast we add more energy capacity and as a percentage, more use of alternatives.

 

Using an electric car, right now, definitely reduces carbon footprint and oil usage. And it will do that more so over time. Though, as you said, it does not mean you are ONLY using green energy.

 

One other note: if people want to, in many or most areas now, you can opt for green energy from your electricity provider. The rate is only slightly higher, at least in my case. That doesn't mean you have a direct pipe to a solar array, but it means you increase the amount of alternative energy the utility has to buy or create, thereby increasing it by some amount with your choice.

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 25, 2013 -> 09:14 AM)
This has been the golden goose of solar tech for 15 years now.

 

No one in the industry is banking on this happening within the next 5 years.

One alternative coming into vogue now is sort of backwards from this - using LESS efficient solar options, but for much less money. Solar shingles are an example of this. Those shingles are not nearly as efficient as true panels, but they are a cheaper alternative, they replace something you already need to replace at some point anyway, and they can turn your whole house into a solar collector.

 

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