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The Ultimate Champion

Who are our trading partners?

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looks like Youk will be done for the season with the Yankees....Alexei to the Yanks?

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QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 01:42 PM)
Depending on what Hahn is expecting of the '14 season, I would actually expect him to deal Reed this winter.

 

Hard to find a comp deal to what Reed would bring, but probably not as much as people think. The closest comp would probably be Andrew Bailey getting traded to the Red Sox where he brought back three prospects - major league ready OF Josh Reddick, middling prospect Miles Head, and high ceiling/low floor Raul Alcantrara. I would try and deal him during the summer when someone may be more desperate to overpay. Remember the last time we had an affordable young closer to deal and all we got back was Nester Molina who is toiling away as a 24 year old in AA.

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Sox need to do something like the Red Sox did last year even if it sounds impossible. Red Sox got rid of Beckett, Crawford and Gonzales just to free up money. I think anyone looking for much talent will probably be disappointed. Greg if you are looking for a plan that might be it. Free up as much money as possible and go to work in the off season.

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QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:02 PM)
Mercer is their new starter, and he is better offensively than Alexi.

 

 

Mercer is actually a guy that I think the Sox could get in a Ramirez deal. Pittsburgh isn't going to give you any of their top 4 prospects but they have a deep system. Tabata could definitely be had. He doesn't even play. They have Marte and McCutchen for a long time in LF/CF. Garrett Jones and Travis Snider at RF/DH. They really could use Alexei though.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:07 PM)
No. The White Sox are in a position where they absolutely need to deal starting pitching. When Peavy comes back, the Sox will be sitting on 6 major league level starters again. They could run a 6 man rotation for a week or two until the deadline and maybe skip a Sale start or something like that, but doing that for more than a couple turns is intolerable with a staff full of young guys who can benefit from work, and moving Axelrod or Santiago to the bullpen is intolerable given that they're legit pieces who could be even bigger contributors next year if we give them their time this year.

 

If you're worried about pitching depth next year, starter #6 next year is named Erik Johnson, he'll be sitting at Charlotte waiting for a shot, and then there are other fill-in options if we need a spot start.

 

I don't know which starter it will be, but one of the starters needs moved in July unless we've somehow climbed back into the race.

 

 

I would like to bundle Santiago and Crain to SD for Kyle Blanks, Alexei Amarista, and Adys Portillo. SD needs the pitching depth to make their playoff push and Blanks and Amarista are bench players for them. Portillo is a lottery ticket with a big arm and is still pretty young.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:28 PM)
Sox need to do something like the Red Sox did last year even if it sounds impossible. Red Sox got rid of Beckett, Crawford and Gonzales just to free up money. I think anyone looking for much talent will probably be disappointed. Greg if you are looking for a plan that might be it. Free up as much money as possible and go to work in the off season.

 

To me, everyone should be actively available outside of Sale. Like you said, the more payroll that can be slashed, the better. One of the things about having a roster filled with average talent is that it's not too difficult to say goodbye to a lot of players.

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Just thinking here

 

Let's say we could get Martin from Texas somehow as our CF, involving a SP or Rios

 

And you can also get Tabata from PIT in an Alexei deal

 

And OAK will give you Reddick maybe? He's having a s***ty year. Not sure whether they've given up on him or not, but Beane knows our system, maybe DeAza goes there with a prospect or something? OAK may be able to take their division this year.

 

If you can pull that stuff off you've got 4 OF for 3 spots including Viciedo, with Dunn's DH AB available whenever you want, so you take some shots. That would be a pretty athletic OF though.

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:39 PM)
I would like to bundle Santiago and Crain to SD for Kyle Blanks, Alexei Amarista, and Adys Portillo. SD needs the pitching depth to make their playoff push and Blanks and Amarista are bench players for them. Portillo is a lottery ticket with a big arm and is still pretty young.

If we're talking to San Diego about a starting pitcher, just say f*** it and make it Peavy. There will be zero issues with it among anyone and the Padres might well pay a bit of a talent premium to get him back.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:43 PM)
If we're talking to San Diego about a starting pitcher, just say f*** it and make it Peavy. There will be zero issues with it among anyone and the Padres might well pay a bit of a talent premium to get him back.

 

Bingo!

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:00 PM)
Don't the White Sox need a plan before they start dealing pitching? Or are we planning on a last place stay of 5-10 years? Seriously. We have good pitching. Do we trade it all and become a 50-win team for a long time to come? What is the plan?I've yet to see anybody on here talk about what Hahn's plan will be. We're just talking about trading all facets of the team for I presume minor leaguers.

 

Well, because no one here has any f'in' clue what Hahn's plan is. I am sure his plan was to let the season play out, hopefully come July the SOX are in a position to add a piece here or there and be a contender through September. Clearly that is not going to happen unless the SOX roll of 25 of 30 again, which is nearly impossible.

 

I doubt the SOX trade much pitching. I like Reed alot, but as others have noted, if someone wants to pay a king's ransom for him, it is hard to ignore. Relievers are relievers, and while he looks primed to be a good one for awhile, they are somewhat replaceable. If someone wants to send you a player who can be plugged into the everyday lineup and produce for years to come, it is hard to ignore.

 

We will all find out soon enough what Hahn's plan is. I think the most likely scenario is that the players who have contracts expiring at the end of this year will be moved (sans Paulie, for a multitude of reasons, one being no one will want him at this point), and the others will stay. Hahn will try to land a fish or two in the FA market (give me Morales and/or McCann or Granderson) and try again in 2014. One player who is not close to free agency that I could see moved is De Aza. I think his lazy defensive play is starting to wear a little thin with the organization, and if the SOX can get a team to give up a decent piece, he will be moved. Problem is that no one is really ready to take over the CF slot for 2014, but heck, let Thompson, Walker and Mitchell battle it out, even though none are ready. Let Danks get the abs for the rest of 2013 if De Aza is moved. Granderson could be an option in CF, but his days in CF are numbered and he doesn't exactly fit the type of player the SOX need (high OBP, high average), but he is decent buy low candidate.

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QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 01:40 PM)
Just thinking here

 

Let's say we could get Martin from Texas somehow as our CF, involving a SP or Rios

 

And you can also get Tabata from PIT in an Alexei deal

 

And OAK will give you Reddick maybe? He's having a s***ty year. Not sure whether they've given up on him or not, but Beane knows our system, maybe DeAza goes there with a prospect or something? OAK may be able to take their division this year.

 

If you can pull that stuff off you've got 4 OF for 3 spots including Viciedo, with Dunn's DH AB available whenever you want, so you take some shots. That would be a pretty athletic OF though.

Best case scenario is freeing up payroll and getting some talent but many folks here will be disappointed when the names we get back don't match the names we give up. Just have to keep in mind that slashing payroll will be the key and adding some upside talent that's near ML ready or a year or 2 away even if we're not familiar with the names.

 

The beginning of a plan will start soon enough , the bulk of it comes in the off season.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:43 PM)
If we're talking to San Diego about a starting pitcher, just say f*** it and make it Peavy. There will be zero issues with it among anyone and the Padres might well pay a bit of a talent premium to get him back.

The Padres wouldn't just have to pay for Peavy, they'd have to also pay (in prospects) for the cash we'd have to send along to make that deal happen.

 

Any deal involving SD or AZ is probably an easier one to make for our FO given the relationships the Sox have had with those FO & how well they know us. Also the Dodgers would probably know us very well so a deal there could work.

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QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:54 PM)
The Padres wouldn't just have to pay for Peavy, they'd have to also pay (in prospects) for the cash we'd have to send along to make that deal happen.

 

Any deal involving SD or AZ is probably an easier one to make for our FO given the relationships the Sox have had with those FO & how well they know us. Also the Dodgers would probably know us very well so a deal there could work.

The Padres will get the same $25 million bonus next year every other team in the league will get. If they think that Peavy could put them into the playoffs this year, they'd be nuts not to mortgage that money.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 01:51 PM)
Well, because no one here has any f'in' clue what Hahn's plan is. I am sure his plan was to let the season play out, hopefully come July the SOX are in a position to add a piece here or there and be a contender through September. Clearly that is not going to happen unless the SOX roll of 25 of 30 again, which is nearly impossible.

 

I doubt the SOX trade much pitching. I like Reed alot, but as others have noted, if someone wants to pay a king's ransom for him, it is hard to ignore. Relievers are relievers, and while he looks primed to be a good one for awhile, they are somewhat replaceable. If someone wants to send you a player who can be plugged into the everyday lineup and produce for years to come, it is hard to ignore.

 

We will all find out soon enough what Hahn's plan is. I think the most likely scenario is that the players who have contracts expiring at the end of this year will be moved (sans Paulie, for a multitude of reasons, one being no one will want him at this point), and the others will stay. Hahn will try to land a fish or two in the FA market (give me Morales and/or McCann or Granderson) and try again in 2014. One player who is not close to free agency that I could see moved is De Aza. I think his lazy defensive play is starting to wear a little thin with the organization, and if the SOX can get a team to give up a decent piece, he will be moved. Problem is that no one is really ready to take over the CF slot for 2014, but heck, let Thompson, Walker and Mitchell battle it out, even though none are ready. Let Danks get the abs for the rest of 2013 if De Aza is moved. Granderson could be an option in CF, but his days in CF are numbered and he doesn't exactly fit the type of player the SOX need (high OBP, high average), but he is decent buy low candidate.

I think it's reasonable to assume Crain will be gone for sure. After that Rios then Peavy but I wouldn't be shocked if neither got dealt. considering the contracts and Peavy's injury. If the Sox get rid of those 3 I will consider the plan started and the trades to be a success no matter who we get back within reason.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:00 PM)
I think it's reasonable to assume Crain will be gone for sure. After that Rios then Peavy but I wouldn't be shocked if neither got dealt. considering the contracts and Peavy's injury. If the Sox get rid of those 3 I will consider the plan started and the trades to be a success no matter who we get back within reason.

Personally I think Peavy is much more likely to be dealt than Rios just on the grounds that the Sox have obvious starting pitchers sitting there and zero obvious OF's to step in for Rios next year.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:02 PM)
Personally I think Peavy is much more likely to be dealt than Rios just on the grounds that the Sox have obvious starting pitchers sitting there and zero obvious OF's to step in for Rios next year.

 

Yep...I think its doubtful that Rios gets traded. I think Crain is almost a guarantee.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:02 PM)
Personally I think Peavy is much more likely to be dealt than Rios just on the grounds that the Sox have obvious starting pitchers sitting there and zero obvious OF's to step in for Rios next year.

Not having an arm injury is helpful. You can always sell the point that being off 4-6 weeks kept his arm fresher but there's still a chance you're pushing the trade deadline with his 1st few starts otherwise I would've listed Peavy ahead of Rios.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:05 PM)
Yep...I think its doubtful that Rios gets traded. I think Crain is almost a guarantee.

At least if it were me in that chair, I'd take the best offer I could get for Peavy, Crain, and Thornton. Rios I'd take plenty of phone calls on, but he'd be the guy I'd have a threshold on; I'd want something really good in return for him. Reed, Alexei would fit in that boat as well.

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My problem with dealing Peavy this year is that you won't get anywhere near max value coming off an injury like he is. If you do, then by all means, make the trade, but I fail to see that situation coming up. I have no problem waiting on him.

 

I also have no problem dealing a guy like Santiago or Quintana if you get sufficient value either in terms of prospects (plural) or prospect (singular). Not that this exactly is going to happen because they continually pull starting pitching out of their ass, but if the Cardinals offered Taveras straight up for Quintana, you don't think twice.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:09 PM)
At least if it were me in that chair, I'd take the best offer I could get for Peavy, Crain, and Thornton. Rios I'd take plenty of phone calls on, but he'd be the guy I'd have a threshold on; I'd want something really good in return for him. Reed, Alexei would fit in that boat as well.

Rios has a clause in his contract with 6 teams he can't be traded to along with his history of inconsistency plus his contract which isn't as bad as it used to be but still might be a detriment to some teams. I'm still looking to slash payroll there and wouldn't expect very much in return . Package him with Peavy in a whopper trade and we'll see.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:18 PM)
Rios has a clause in his contract with 6 teams he can't be traded to along with is history of inconsistency plus his contract which isn't as bad as it used to be but still might be a detriment to some teams. I'm still looking to slash payroll there and wouldn't expect very much in return . Package him with Peavy in a whopper trade and we'll see.

 

Rios' contract is good now. He's repeating his career year last year and is under contract for one more year plus an option at $12.5m per year. Over the past ten years, free agent market rates usually pay $5-7m per WAR. Rios is a 3-4 WAR OF being paid like a 2 WAR OF on a short term contract in which the second year is a team option.

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It's pretty obvious that Rios and Crain have been our two best performing players, other than Chris Sale, this year.

You could have made an argument for Reed until about 2 weeks ago.

 

Personally, I'm just tired of all the mental mistakes that DeAza and Ramirez are making, but that doesn't mean dumping them because you're frustrated with them (or Viciedo, for that matter) will end up helping your organization long-term in any way.

 

It has been said 1000 times, but it bears repeating. No Rios=no chance to compete in 2014. You can survive without Peavy, arguably, because of the starting pitching depth that we have, and the fact that his salary can be replaced by another bat.

 

If you're going out to buy Rios' contribution on the FA market, you're just as likely to get burned as not, if you look at recent history with acquisitions like Swisher, Keppinger or Dunn.

 

Frankly, other than Chris Sale, there's nobody on the roster that's 100% safe. I doubt there's really anyone that would upset a majority of the fanbase if they were to be dealt, either. For me, it would be frustrating if they gave up Viciedo at this point, got basically nothing back in return offensively and he ended up blossoming with another organization for his age 25-28 seasons.

 

 

 

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:25 PM)
It's pretty obvious that Rios and Crain have been our two best performing players, other than Chris Sale, this year.

You could have made an argument for Reed until about 2 weeks ago.

 

Personally, I'm just tired of all the mental mistakes that DeAza and Ramirez are making, but that doesn't mean dumping them because you're frustrated with them (or Viciedo, for that matter) will end up helping your organization long-term in any way.

 

It has been said 1000 times, but it bears repeating. No Rios=no chance to compete in 2014. You can survive without Peavy, arguably, because of the starting pitching depth that we have, and the fact that his salary can be replaced by another bat.

 

If you're going out to buy Rios' contribution on the FA market, you're just as likely to get burned as not, if you look at recent history with acquisitions like Swisher, Keppinger or Dunn.

 

Frankly, other than Chris Sale, there's nobody on the roster that's 100% safe. I doubt there's really anyone that would upset a majority of the fanbase if they were to be dealt, either. For me, it would be frustrating if they gave up Viciedo at this point, got basically nothing back in return offensively and he ended up blossoming with another organization for his age 25-28 seasons.

There are guys on the FA Market who could be plausible replacements for Rios...Choo, Pence, Granderson but a health risk, Beltran, Nelson Cruz if he isn't suspended, Ellsbury. The question will be whether the Sox would be willing to make that kind of financial commitment. If they moved a bunch of guys and got a really good return for Rios, someone who steps into the IF or fills some other hole immediately, they could be in a situation where that makes sense to do...but that's why another team has to meet our price if they want Rios.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:22 PM)
Rios' contract is good now. He's repeating his career year last year and is under contract for one more year plus an option at $12.5m per year. Over the past ten years, free agent market rates usually pay $5-7m per WAR. Rios is a 3-4 WAR OF being paid like a 2 WAR OF on a short term contract in which the second year is a team option.

Which is why I said it's not as bad as it used to appear because his last 1 1/2 yrs. have been good, but a team getting him is still taking on approx $25 milion and if some contenders are on his 6 team list it makes it even harder. Also a clause that adds .5 million if traded though that's basically meaningless.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:25 PM)
It has been said 1000 times, but it bears repeating. No Rios=no chance to compete in 2014. You can survive without Peavy, arguably, because of the starting pitching depth that we have, and the fact that his salary can be replaced by another bat.

 

If you're going out to buy Rios' contribution on the FA market, you're just as likely to get burned as not, if you look at recent history with acquisitions like Swisher, Keppinger or Dunn.

It's been said 1000 time with you saying it 999 times but one player does not damn the 2014 season no matter how you look at it. Next year might be damned anyway . Realistically looking to compete in 2015 after Dunn is gone unless by some miracle we can dump him this year. I really hate to punt on 2014 , I mean really hate it, but keeping Rios seriously puts a dent in the payroll and payroll flexibility is more important than Rios . You just said Peavy's salary can be replaced by a bat .Throw in Rios salary and maybe now you have 2 bats for 2014 so why is Rios bat so important if we can get one for Peavy and another for Rios ?

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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