You = Hahn. Do you heavily shop Reed, Yes or No?

[Eminor3rd]

Can you read?

 

I was implying that the statement you made is in stark contrast with what you're saying elsewhere.

 

But maybe I CAN'T read. That would make sense, because it would explain why you seem to be contradicting yourself so much. It could my poor comprehension.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[The Ultimate Champion]

I was implying that the statement you made is in stark contrast with what you're saying elsewhere.

 

But maybe I CAN'T read. That would make sense, because it would explain why you seem to be contradicting yourself so much. It could my poor comprehension.

I think you're angry, blind with anger, and when you see my posts you go AAAAAHAHAHHARGHGHGRHGAAA and the fingers start flying and it's like AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH and then I come back and I'm just like I don't get it, I already responded to that point on the last page.

[Eminor3rd]

I think you're angry, blind with anger, and when you see my posts you go AAAAAHAHAHHARGHGHGRHGAAA and the fingers start flying and it's like AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH and then I come back and I'm just like I don't get it, I already responded to that point on the last page.

 

That is pretty close to the sound that I make, lol.

 

What I missed is this: why would the Tigers trade Castellanos for Reed when Papelbon, Crain, and Cishek are all available for substantially less talent? All three are better than Reed right now, also.

[Balta1701]

All three are better than Reed right now, also.

Reed has a better ERA than Cishek in a much more hitter-friendly park. Reed has a much lower WHIP, is striking out more batters, and walking fewer.

[The Ultimate Champion]

That is pretty close to the sound that I make, lol.

 

What I missed is this: why would the Tigers trade Castellanos for Reed when Papelbon, Crain, and Cishek are all available for substantially less talent? All three are better than Reed right now, also.

I just read that the Phillies don't even want to trade Papelbon because they don't feel his deal is a problem.

 

Crain isn't a closer, that's just another experiment.

 

How do you know what other teams are asking?

 

You don't.

 

You have no idea.

 

The Marlins need talent too, they're done giving players away. They have practically nothing on the books anymore. Who is to say they wouldn't ask even more than the Sox?

 

They're all better than Reed? Throwing s*** at the wall here?

 

You're asking me why the Tigers would try to get a good closer from someone in exchange for a prospect. I've answered that already. You just keep asking the same question.

[caulfield12]

The Jackson/Teahen/Stewart/Frasor whatever deal had much more to do with getting out of Teahen's contract than anything else. The fact that Stewart was a live, decent arm was an added bonus.

 

 

So then, by that theory, Edwin Jackson was worth about 1/2 of, say, Jeff Keppinger.

 

I think because of the way Teahen just disappeared from the majors, we're now undervaluing what some scouts thought about Zach Stewart at the time of the trade.

 

Because when the subject of Keppinger comes up as a "waste of money," nobody really makes a big deal about it (that at some point, we're going to have to use the leverage of an asset to get his salary off the payroll)...yet essentially we traded Daniel Hudson for Mark Teahen in the end because we didn't win anything with Jackson.

Edited June 26, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

So then, by that theory, Edwin Jackson was worth about 1/2 of, say, Jeff Keppinger.

 

I think because of the way Teahen just disappeared from the majors, we're now undervaluing what some scouts thought about Zach Stewart at the time of the trade.

 

Because when the subject of Keppinger comes up as a "waste of money," nobody really makes a big deal about it (that at some point, we're going to have to use the leverage of an asset to get his salary off the payroll)...yet essentially we traded Daniel Hudson for Mark Teahen in the end because we didn't win anything with Jackson.

See I view that trade totally differently. The Teahen trade & extension itself was dumb, but the second Jackson deal was KW taking advantage of the Jays desire for Rasmus. The Cards wanted EJax & weren't going to make that deal without him, so Kenny rightfully got a good prospect out of them (Stewart was a good, highly rated prospect with a nice arm who busted, as is typical, let's not rewrite history) and then Kenny made them eat Teahen's deal. Frasor was the add-on kind of piece there. That was actually a huge haul for Kenny for a 1/2 season of Jackson, and an excellent example of him taking advantage of a very unique situation.

 

The lamenting of the Jackson-Hudson deal just needs to disappear from these boards. We tried to win, we didn't, oh well. We didn't miss a beat in the SP department, we actually got better even without anyone we were talking about at the time coming through. Still the biggest & most hurtful move during that time period was the one we didn't make, where JR blocked KW from firing Ozzie's ass.

[witesoxfan]

Well, then #1 and #1 moves can be tied and are directly related, because the White Sox not resigning Jim Thome, when they KNEW he was going to sign with the Twins otherwise, when he came back to them because the White Sox had Mark Kotsay was the ultimate move in irresponsibility. The White Sox win the division with Jim Thome back that year. Instead, f***ing bulls*** Twins won GOD I HATED THAT TWINS TEAM

[Eminor3rd]

I just read that the Phillies don't even want to trade Papelbon because they don't feel his deal is a problem.

 

Crain isn't a closer, that's just another experiment.

 

How do you know what other teams are asking?

 

You don't.

 

You have no idea.

 

The Marlins need talent too, they're done giving players away. They have practically nothing on the books anymore. Who is to say they wouldn't ask even more than the Sox?

 

They're all better than Reed? Throwing s*** at the wall here?

 

You're asking me why the Tigers would try to get a good closer from someone in exchange for a prospect. I've answered that already. You just keep asking the same question.

 

Crain has performed like, what, 90 times better than Reed so far? Who cares if he's not a closer? Harold Reynolds does maybe. I don't buy the "pressure" garbage for a second. If a guy can't handle the pressure of the 9th inning, he's not in the Major Leagues. Crain has pitched out of a TON of high leverage situations, probably more than the average closer. Certainly more than Reed this year.

 

Cishek, ok, maybe not. There's a Cishek-shape stain of s*** on the wall. But he's not MUCH worse, isn't on an inter-division rival, and would come cheaper.

 

[Eminor3rd]

See I view that trade totally differently. The Teahen trade & extension itself was dumb, but the second Jackson deal was KW taking advantage of the Jays desire for Rasmus. The Cards wanted EJax & weren't going to make that deal without him, so Kenny rightfully got a good prospect out of them (Stewart was a good, highly rated prospect with a nice arm who busted, as is typical, let's not rewrite history) and then Kenny made them eat Teahen's deal. Frasor was the add-on kind of piece there. That was actually a huge haul for Kenny for a 1/2 season of Jackson, and an excellent example of him taking advantage of a very unique situation.

 

The lamenting of the Jackson-Hudson deal just needs to disappear from these boards. We tried to win, we didn't, oh well. We didn't miss a beat in the SP department, we actually got better even without anyone we were talking about at the time coming through. Still the biggest & most hurtful move during that time period was the one we didn't make, where JR blocked KW from firing Ozzie's ass.

 

+1

[caulfield12]

See I view that trade totally differently. The Teahen trade & extension itself was dumb, but the second Jackson deal was KW taking advantage of the Jays desire for Rasmus. The Cards wanted EJax & weren't going to make that deal without him, so Kenny rightfully got a good prospect out of them (Stewart was a good, highly rated prospect with a nice arm who busted, as is typical, let's not rewrite history) and then Kenny made them eat Teahen's deal. Frasor was the add-on kind of piece there. That was actually a huge haul for Kenny for a 1/2 season of Jackson, and an excellent example of him taking advantage of a very unique situation.

 

The lamenting of the Jackson-Hudson deal just needs to disappear from these boards. We tried to win, we didn't, oh well. We didn't miss a beat in the SP department, we actually got better even without anyone we were talking about at the time coming through. Still the biggest & most hurtful move during that time period was the one we didn't make, where JR blocked KW from firing Ozzie's ass.

 

 

In fairness, I forgot about the Frasor/Webb/Jaye part of it.

 

Still, there was absolutely ZERO need to extend Mark Teahen in the first place. One of the most bizarre moves in the KW regime, and supposedly 90% related to Buddy Bell pushing for it.

 

 

 

And speaking of prospects, Chris Davis and Pedro Alvarez (watching the Pirates game now) are perfect examples of two prospects that took a LONG time to come around, along with Alex Gordon.

 

It's why the Royals will most likely have Hosmer/Moustakas bust on the Royals completely before they dump them.

Edited June 26, 2013 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

See I view that trade totally differently. The Teahen trade & extension itself was dumb, but the second Jackson deal was KW taking advantage of the Jays desire for Rasmus. The Cards wanted EJax & weren't going to make that deal without him, so Kenny rightfully got a good prospect out of them (Stewart was a good, highly rated prospect with a nice arm who busted, as is typical, let's not rewrite history) and then Kenny made them eat Teahen's deal. Frasor was the add-on kind of piece there. That was actually a huge haul for Kenny for a 1/2 season of Jackson, and an excellent example of him taking advantage of a very unique situation.

 

The lamenting of the Jackson-Hudson deal just needs to disappear from these boards. We tried to win, we didn't, oh well. We didn't miss a beat in the SP department, we actually got better even without anyone we were talking about at the time coming through. Still the biggest & most hurtful move during that time period was the one we didn't make, where JR blocked KW from firing Ozzie's ass.

 

Well said.

[oldsox]

The lamenting of the Jackson-Hudson deal just needs to disappear from these boards. We tried to win, we didn't, oh well. We didn't miss a beat in the SP department, we actually got better even without anyone we were talking about at the time coming through. Still the biggest & most hurtful move during that time period was the one we didn't make, where JR blocked KW from firing Ozzie's ass.

Au contraire. We did miss a beat in the SP Dept. Hudson went on an immediate hot streak, Jackson did the opposite. And we threw in Holmgren for good measure. I also feel we should no longer lament the trade, but not because of what you said.

Edited June 27, 2013 by oldsox

[caulfield12]

Au contraire. We did miss a beat in the SP Dept. Hudson went on an immediate hot streak, Jackson did the opposite. And we threw in Holmgren for good measure. I also feel we should no longer lament the trade, but not because of what you said.

 

 

Same reason there's not much point in lamenting Santos for Molina.

 

 

We dodged another bullet, not being stuck with more bad exploding contracts.

[Lemon_44]

And speaking of prospects, Chris Davis and Pedro Alvarez (watching the Pirates game now) are perfect examples of two prospects that took a LONG time to come around, along with Alex Gordon.

Every time I look at box scores these days, it kills me. All off season I was hoping/wanting/calling for the Sox to swing deals for Alvarez and Dominic Brown. If you believe the reports, Brown was in the doghouse and could have been had for very little as Philly had about given up on him. Alvarez also had his issues in Pittsburgh but I'm not all sure he was made available. I'm sure he could have been had though.

 

Both of them are having very nice years and now the cost to acquire them would be prohibitive. Those two are also good examples of why I think, even though they have struggled, it's still way too early to write off Viciedo or even Flowers.

[caulfield12]

Every time I look at box scores these days, it kills me. All off season I was hoping/wanting/calling for the Sox to swing deals for Alvarez and Dominic Brown. If you believe the reports, Brown was in the doghouse and could have been had for very little as Philly had about given up on him. Alvarez also had his issues in Pittsburgh but I'm not all sure he was made available. I'm sure he could have been had though.

 

Both of them are having very nice years and now the cost to acquire them would be prohibitive. Those two are also good examples of why I think, even though they have struggled, it's still way too early to write off Viciedo or even Flowers.

 

Yeah, I was watching the highlights today and forgot to include Brown.

 

There's four, Davis/Alvarez/Brown/Gordon, although those last three guys were all pedigreed, with high first round draft status.

 

Davis came from the 3rd to last pick of the 5th round.

 

And it's why getting Hosmer and Moustakas from a division rival is just never going to happen...it would be the final nail in Dayton Moore's coffin if either one of those guys emerged as studs later on and came back to haunt KC.

 

As far as giving up on Beckham or Viciedo, yeah, they pretty much have no choice but to stick it out with them for another year. Things would appear to be more "fluid" with Tyler's fate.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2013 by caulfield12

[balfanman]

When is the Trade Winds section going to open up? We're obviously out of it this year, can we have a section for rumors and thoughts of who should be traded?

[LittleHurt05]

Every time I look at box scores these days, it kills me. All off season I was hoping/wanting/calling for the Sox to swing deals for Alvarez and Dominic Brown. If you believe the reports, Brown was in the doghouse and could have been had for very little as Philly had about given up on him. Alvarez also had his issues in Pittsburgh but I'm not all sure he was made available. I'm sure he could have been had though.

 

Both of them are having very nice years and now the cost to acquire them would be prohibitive. Those two are also good examples of why I think, even though they have struggled, it's still way too early to write off Viciedo or even Flowers.

 

Considering that he's still in Philly, I wouldn't believe those reports. Somebody would have traded for him.

[witesoxfan]

Au contraire. We did miss a beat in the SP Dept. Hudson went on an immediate hot streak, Jackson did the opposite. And we threw in Holmgren for good measure. I also feel we should no longer lament the trade, but not because of what you said.

 

the f***? Edwin Jackson's ERA with the White Sox was 3.66 over 30 starts. Hudson was great down the stretch for Arizona, but let's not act like Jackson s*** the bed.

[Kyyle23]

When is the Trade Winds section going to open up? We're obviously out of it this year, can we have a section for rumors and thoughts of who should be traded?

 

When Chisoxfn decides it should go up

[balfanman]

When Chisoxfn decides it should go up

 

I guess if we included talk of who should be traded in Tradewinds, Palehose Talk would be pretty barren.

Edited June 27, 2013 by balfanman

[southsider2k5]

When is the Trade Winds section going to open up? We're obviously out of it this year, can we have a section for rumors and thoughts of who should be traded?

 

Probably when we start to get some actual rumors, and not just baseless speculation.

[Kyyle23]

I guess if we included talk of who should be traded in Tradewinds, Palehose Talk would be pretty barren.

 

That is pretty much why he waits until last possible minute to put it up. Or, when the trading starts

[The Ultimate Champion]

IMO the trade winds forum only makes sense when the team is in contention/worth watching, because then it separates your general team talk from trade rumors. HOwever during this kind of season there is no reason, because new players (whether potential trade acquisitions, signings, call-ups, etc.) are the only interesting part anyway.

[The Ultimate Champion]

the f***? Edwin Jackson's ERA with the White Sox was 3.66 over 30 starts. Hudson was great down the stretch for Arizona, but let's not act like Jackson s*** the bed.

And also, Jackson's stuff was better than Hudson's ever will be, and beyond the regular season stats, I think Kenny made that trade thinking that if you get into the playoffs & Jackson ends up your 3 or 4 you have a guy who could dominate and destroy. Didn't work out but at least we tried.