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PolishPrince34

Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:49 AM)
Yeah I think you are right. bucket has been right on it in the past and this fits. It just seems like De Aza hasn't taken to coaching at all. Same mistakes in OF. Same bad approach too often at the dish. OTOH, I don't think De Aza is a leadoff hitter and he's actually quite productive for what he should be. I would actually be surprised if he's on the team in August at this point.

 

He has actually gotten much worse has he has gone on. He is really perplexing.

 

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If everyone including bucket thinks the player out of favor is De Aza, does anyone think we can actually get value for him? Offensively, minus the strikeouts, he has had a great year so far out of the leadoff hole. I do not think he is a leadoff hitter but lower in the order that can provide speed can be lethal especially in the NL.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 11:00 AM)
If everyone including bucket thinks the player out of favor is De Aza, does anyone think we can actually get value for him? Offensively, minus the strikeouts, he has had a great year so far out of the leadoff hole. I do not think he is a leadoff hitter but lower in the order that can provide speed can be lethal especially in the NL.

 

DeAza is another one of those guys that the SOX may be better off just keeping him for now. I doubt he'd fetch much, and he is actually pretty productive offensively. He is frustrating defensively for sure, and even at the plate, but I think the SOX are better off holding onto him, moving him to the 7 or 8 spot next year. Problem is, where does he play if Tank is in LF, which is where he should be for now. He is not great in CF, and to me doesn't really seem to be a winner.

 

IF the SOX can move DeAza for something of value, he's probably gone.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 11:07 AM)
DeAza is another one of those guys that the SOX may be better off just keeping him for now. I doubt he'd fetch much, and he is actually pretty productive offensively. He is frustrating defensively for sure, and even at the plate, but I think the SOX are better off holding onto him, moving him to the 7 or 8 spot next year. Problem is, where does he play if Tank is in LF, which is where he should be for now. He is not great in CF, and to me doesn't really seem to be a winner.

 

IF the SOX can move DeAza for something of value, he's probably gone.

 

 

 

There's really not any sense of a team-wide approach (go back to Pods/Iguchi at the top), or that DeAza is doing anything besides flailing away...but he's not striking me as a protypical leadoff hitter by any stretch of the imagination.

 

There's just no cohesiveness and sense of sacrificing for the team or teammates and making good decisions each plate appearance.

 

Alexei's just up there hacking away, DeAza, Viciedo....Dunn every once in a while shows a willingness to go to the opposite side (recently), but for the most part was pulling everything into the shift.

 

 

About the only hitters (other than Rios) you can say much at all positive about for their approaches have been Gillaspie and Beckham, but, with the team out of the race...everyone's just kind of up there taking their hacks and looking just as much at individual stats as opposed to team performance/wins and losses.

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I think one of the guys Ventura has the problem with is Flowers, and I don't think it has to do with his attitude per se. I think it has to do with his swing and approach.

 

Hahn specifically mentioned CF and C as postions he was looking for when he addressed the media recently, so De Aza and Flowers are probably the problem children.

 

De Aza has been doing pretty well offensively lately, but defensively has been a joke. If a ball bounces off a wall, he is going to have a tough time picking it up cleanly. He has also made some bonehead plays on the bases. It's hard to understand why this is happening.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 11:46 AM)
I think one of the guys Ventura has the problem with is Flowers, and I don't think it has to do with his attitude per se. I think it has to do with his swing and approach.

 

Hahn specifically mentioned CF and C as postions he was looking for when he addressed the media recently, so De Aza and Flowers are probably the problem children.

 

And, if they had any type of solution that didn't involve Keppinger, Tyler Greene or Angel Sanchez, SS would be on that list too....probably they have no idea which way to go with Alexei Ramirez and are waiting to see if an attractive enough offer comes along.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:50 PM)
And, if they had any type of solution that didn't involve Keppinger, Tyler Greene or Angel Sanchez, SS would be on that list too....probably they have no idea which way to go with Alexei Ramirez and are waiting to see if an attractive enough offer comes along.

Hahn knows he has to have a decent SS to compete next season and/or the season after, and right now there isn't anything they have that is that close, so unless he can pick one up with another player, if he is trying to win next year, I really doubt he trades Ramirez.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 11:55 AM)
Hahn knows he has to have a decent SS to compete next season and/or the season after, and right now there isn't anything they have that is that close, so unless he can pick one up with another player, if he is trying to win next year, I really doubt he trades Ramirez.

 

 

With the offense being the primary area of focus, there's no way they can stick Carlos Sanchez out there to start the year in 2014...if his OPS is barely 600 at AAA right now, one can only imagine what would happen at the next level.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 06:07 AM)
Well here's something. Buster Olney tweeted that the DBacks have been looking at Peavy and that the Sox have had scouts at their games to watch Randall Delgado. What you guys think?

 

 

If they include Owings and/or Davidson I would be all over that deal. If Hahn doesn't turn one of our SPs into a ML ready hitter I'd be very disappointed.

 

 

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QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 01:31 PM)
If they include Owings and/or Davidson I would be all over that deal. If Hahn doesn't turn one of our SPs into a ML ready hitter I'd be very disappointed.

 

The Sox are dealing from a position of strength here with a sought after commodity. If you don't get the package you desire, then move on.

 

The one player who really does need to be traded is Rios.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:50 PM)
The Sox are dealing from a position of strength here with a sought after commodity. If you don't get the package you desire, then move on.

 

The one player who really does need to be traded is Rios.

 

 

Why would you say that? Because it's easier to replace a RF than a SS of Alexei's caliber? Contracts/dollars?

 

The decent season he's having so far, vs. Alexei's missing power and errors (somewhat mitigated by steals, TC/range and doubles).

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 01:54 PM)
Why would you say that? Because it's easier to replace a RF than a SS of Alexei's caliber? Contracts/dollars?

 

The decent season he's having so far, vs. Alexei's missing power and errors (somewhat mitigated by steals, TC/range and doubles).

 

This is Peavy vs Rios. Peavy is a great starting pitcher, so he's always going to have good value, plus it's a relatively weak pitchers market. Rios is maybe a top 12 right fielder, but he's one of the best bats on the market right now. His value now versus where it will be in 5 months is drastically different.

 

Alexei is going to have enough value right now simply because it's a position of weakness for many teams, but we can't act like Alexei is irreplaceable either. If the Sox can get solid value for him, especially if they get a shortstop prospect in a return trade, then they absolutely should do so.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 02:36 PM)
This is Peavy vs Rios. Peavy is a great starting pitcher, so he's always going to have good value, plus it's a relatively weak pitchers market. Rios is maybe a top 12 right fielder, but he's one of the best bats on the market right now. His value now versus where it will be in 5 months is drastically different.

 

Alexei is going to have enough value right now simply because it's a position of weakness for many teams, but we can't act like Alexei is irreplaceable either. If the Sox can get solid value for him, especially if they get a shortstop prospect in a return trade, then they absolutely should do so.

 

Peavy is far more likely to have his value sullied by another injury than Rios, which is no small factor. One more trip to the DL and Peavy is next to untradeable. For our purposes, also, we are far more likely to have the means to replace Peavy. Letting Rios go may leave us in a place where we have 0 decent outfielders.

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QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:56 PM)
Here's what I've been told...(one source), FWIW

 

- Close on a couple deals (real names exchanged)

 

- Sale is not untouchable

 

- Several guys are on their way out just to be gone (out of favor with RV)

 

 

What this tells me, more than anything, is that they are committed to Robin. You don't let your manager's doghouse play much of a role in who you are trading if you are about to cut that manager loose.

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QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 02:42 PM)
What this tells me, more than anything, is that they are committed to Robin. You don't let your manager's doghouse play much of a role in who you are trading if you are about to cut that manager loose.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. That RV is here to stay.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 01:36 PM)
This is Peavy vs Rios. Peavy is a great starting pitcher, so he's always going to have good value, plus it's a relatively weak pitchers market. Rios is maybe a top 12 right fielder, but he's one of the best bats on the market right now. His value now versus where it will be in 5 months is drastically different.

 

Alexei is going to have enough value right now simply because it's a position of weakness for many teams, but we can't act like Alexei is irreplaceable either. If the Sox can get solid value for him, especially if they get a shortstop prospect in a return trade, then they absolutely should do so.

 

He still has the REPUTATION as a great starting pitcher because of 2007/Cy Young and Petco.

 

He was near great for 4 1/2 months last (except against the Tigers), and he was VERY GOOD in 2013 before the rib injury that he unwisely tried to pitch through.

 

If he can get his fastball back up to 92-93 again (and with consistency), we'll generate a lot of interest.

Edited by caulfield12

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I think Peavy actually has more value than Rios because he has WAY more suitors. If the Phillies don't make Lee available, Peavy is the best SP on the market like Rios is the best bat. The difference is that only about 3 teams are obviously in the market for Rios, while 10+ are looking for pitching.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:02 PM)
I think Peavy actually has more value than Rios because he has WAY more suitors. If the Phillies don't make Lee available, Peavy is the best SP on the market like Rios is the best bat. The difference is that only about 3 teams are obviously in the market for Rios, while 10+ are looking for pitching.

 

I don't think there is any question that outside of Chris Sale that Jake Peavy should generate the most interest of anyone on this team. Ace quality pitcher, signed for another year at a really good rate.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 03:02 PM)
I think Peavy actually has more value than Rios because he has WAY more suitors. If the Phillies don't make Lee available, Peavy is the best SP on the market like Rios is the best bat. The difference is that only about 3 teams are obviously in the market for Rios, while 10+ are looking for pitching.

 

 

IF IF IF he proves himself healthy in his 3-4 JULY starts.

 

Right now there's no Peavy market until Sunday's game is over without any setbacks.

 

If he starts the 14th, that would put him on schedule to start the 19th, 24th and 29th, roughly speaking (haven't looked at the major or minor league schedules for those dates).

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:04 PM)
IF IF IF he proves himself healthy in his 3-4 JULY starts.

 

Right now there's no Peavy market until Sunday's game is over without any setbacks.

 

If he starts the 14th, that would put him on schedule to start the 19th, 24th and 29th, roughly speaking (haven't looked at the major or minor league schedules for those dates).

 

Yes, this is true.

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That injury throws a kink in a lot of things.

 

Basically, I'm saying you can still get pretty good value for Peavy in the offseason. There are definitely a ton of reasons to trade him now, but you don't want to force the issue. Come the offseason, even if teams believe Alex Rios is an .800 OPS player, they are going more apt to try and acquire a guy (Joe Cheapo, we'll say) for less regarding both assets and finances that they believe can put up a .750 OPS, or play better defense, or whatever. When it comes to making a playoff birth, if you think Rios wins you one more game than Cheapo, you are going to spend the money on Cheapo to try and assure your spot in the playoffs.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 05:27 PM)
That injury throws a kink in a lot of things.

 

Basically, I'm saying you can still get pretty good value for Peavy in the offseason. There are definitely a ton of reasons to trade him now, but you don't want to force the issue. Come the offseason, even if teams believe Alex Rios is an .800 OPS player, they are going more apt to try and acquire a guy (Joe Cheapo, we'll say) for less regarding both assets and finances that they believe can put up a .750 OPS, or play better defense, or whatever. When it comes to making a playoff birth, if you think Rios wins you one more game than Cheapo, you are going to spend the money on Cheapo to try and assure your spot in the playoffs.

I still don't think there's enough innings to go around once Peavy comes back. And yes, that includes Axelrod getting some, but even without that, Johnson would be nice to give a couple starts to once September rolls around as well.

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If he comes back effectively, I actually think there is still plenty of time to trade him for a real return.

 

If his rib is still bothering him, it will show in his velocity and stuff immediately. I would guess that even if Peavy's first start looks normal, it'll be enough for a lot of teams to pull the trigger in this shallow market.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:32 PM)
I still don't think there's enough innings to go around once Peavy comes back. And yes, that includes Axelrod getting some, but even without that, Johnson would be nice to give a couple starts to once September rolls around as well.

 

5th spot will just be a revolving door in September. Axelrod can go to Charlotte, as far as I'm concerned.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 03:32 PM)
I still don't think there's enough innings to go around once Peavy comes back. And yes, that includes Axelrod getting some, but even without that, Johnson would be nice to give a couple starts to once September rolls around as well.

 

:david

 

 

:chair

 

:violin

 

:drink

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