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PolishPrince34

Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

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I'd say the likelihood of Rios getting traded is falling precipitously. I don't think we want to give him away and that is looking like what we'll have to do unless he catches fire in a hurry.

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QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 08:24 PM)
I'd say the likelihood of Rios getting traded is falling precipitously. I don't think we want to give him away and that is looking like what we'll have to do unless he catches fire in a hurry.

 

Fine with me

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Luckily Rios will likely be the best defensive outfielder on the block this year. That will keep his value somewhat reasonable. However, if we want a cant miss prospect in return, he needs to start hitting the crap out of the ball very soon. I would hate to waiste this chance to rid of that salary/ get a solid return. If Hahn continues to sit on his hands, we may keep him after all and that would be what I call a waisted golden opportunity to move foward.

Edited by GreatScott82

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 12:14 AM)
Gonzo reported an NL scout questioned Rios' effort Saturday when he again jogged down the line. He hasn't hit a homer in a month either. His stock certainly is falling.

 

I kind of question Rios in TWTW department. I have no proof, of course. The eye test tells me he's a decent ballplayer whose TWTW can be questioned. If I'm wrong, behead me. I think he screams mediocre to good ballplayer, kind of like Jose Guillen near the end of Jose's career.

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I believe that Rios is one of the softest players on the field. It's obvious that he has issues with all of the rumors, as once he was unhappy in Toronto he started to s*** the bed as well.

 

We need to drop him ASAP.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 10:07 PM)
I kind of question Rios in TWTW department. I have no proof, of course. The eye test tells me he's a decent ballplayer whose TWTW can be questioned. If I'm wrong, behead me. I think he screams mediocre to good ballplayer, kind of like Jose Guillen near the end of Jose's career.

I'm not gonna go all Hawk like you just did, but I view Rios and Dunn in very similar ways. They both have skills sets that create lots of money for them, but I don't think they are players you want to build a team around. Instead, I view them more as very good supporting players for teams that can afford 10+ million on a player who won't necessarily be one of the cornerstones of an offense. That is why I view them as bad fits for the Sox, but good fits for the Rangers (Rios) and Orioles (Dunn). Neither will bat 3 or 4 or maybe even 5, and neither will have the entire spotlight on them. What they do good will still be better than who they are replacing, regardless of "TWTW."

 

On a side note, that Orioles lineup would be pretty tough with Dunn in it and probably bat sixth on most nights.

Edited by Paulstar

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QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 11:21 PM)
I'm not gonna go all Hawk like you just did, but I view Rios and Dunn in very similar ways. They both have skills sets that create lots of money for them, but I don't think they are players you want to build a team around. Instead, I view them more as very good supporting players for teams that can afford 10+ million on a player who won't necessarily be one of the cornerstones of an offense. That is why I view them as bad fits for the Sox, but good fits for the Rangers (Rios) and Orioles (Dunn). Neither will bat 3 or 4 or maybe even 5, and neither will have the entire spotlight on them. What they do good will still be better than who they are replacing, regardless of "TWTW."

 

On a side note, that Orioles lineup would be pretty tough with Dunn in it and probably bat sixth on most nights.

 

 

IIRC, according to you wouldn't Dunn's arrival cause the Orioles to go into a tailspin and not make the postseason? Because Dunn is a loser and he makes teams worse.....

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 7, 2013 -> 11:32 PM)
IIRC, according to you wouldn't Dunn's arrival cause the Orioles to go into a tailspin and not make the postseason? Because Dunn is a loser and he makes teams worse.....

Sure, if you struggle with reading comprehension. Otherwise, I did call Dunn a loser to build a team around, but never said anything to the degree you put it as. But this is a discussion for another thread, I don't want to hijack this thread again.

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Rios hasn't homered since June 9 and is hitting just .163 in his last 11 games. An NL scout also questioned his hustle during the TB series.

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This might be one of the least surprising slumps ever. Rios doesn't like change. He wants to be in a quiet comfort zone, and he isn't getting that now with his name on the block.

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When Rios came to the Sox, he was basically having the same year in Toronto that he is having now, and all the Blue Jays got for him was salary relief. The question will be do the Sox want to pay him to play here the rest of this year or next, because the return probably isn't going to be a highly rated prospect.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 01:46 PM)
When Rios came to the Sox, he was basically having the same year in Toronto that he is having now, and all the Blue Jays got for him was salary relief. The question will be do the Sox want to pay him to play here the rest of this year or next, because the return probably isn't going to be a highly rated prospect.

Part of the Blue Jays motivation to do that though was that they were having to cut salary due to the enormous extension they gave to Vernon Wells and the fact that any other GM in the league would have to be a complete idiot to ever take that contract on.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 01:08 PM)
Part of the Blue Jays motivation to do that though was that they were having to cut salary due to the enormous extension they gave to Vernon Wells and the fact that any other GM in the league would have to be a complete idiot to ever take that contract on.

Obviously the Sox don't have to get rid of him, but regardless, it isn't likely they will be able to get a significant prospect for him now. They eventually did find the complete idiot, and he is no longer a GM.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:17 PM)
Obviously the Sox don't have to get rid of him, but regardless, it isn't likely they will be able to get a significant prospect for him now. They eventually did find the complete idiot, and he is no longer a GM.

If the White Sox can't get a significant prospect for Rios I wouldn't trade him. He still produces up to the level of his contract and no one from the minors is pushing him at that position. If we need salary relief to come up with money for FA's and extensions I'd target the 2 expensive guys in the starting rotation first.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 01:35 PM)
If the White Sox can't get a significant prospect for Rios I wouldn't trade him. He still produces up to the level of his contract and no one from the minors is pushing him at that position. If we need salary relief to come up with money for FA's and extensions I'd target the 2 expensive guys in the starting rotation first.

 

Besides he should have just as much trade value in the winter, as he does at the trade deadline. Maybe more if he were to relax and start hitting again.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:37 PM)
Besides he should have just as much trade value in the winter, as he does at the trade deadline. Maybe more if he were to relax and start hitting again.

It also might help if Ventura starts giving him some time off. 85 games played by the team, 83 for Alex Rios. That's an extra offday for him once every 1.5 months.

 

It's not quite Alexei bad, but that's a pace to play 158 games this year.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 01:39 PM)
It also might help if Ventura starts giving him some time off. 85 games played by the team, 83 for Alex Rios. That's an extra offday for him once every 1.5 months.

 

It's not quite Alexei bad, but that's a pace to play 158 games this year.

 

Maybe it doesn't tire you out as badly when you take little in-game breaks...

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 12:46 PM)
When Rios came to the Sox, he was basically having the same year in Toronto that he is having now, and all the Blue Jays got for him was salary relief. The question will be do the Sox want to pay him to play here the rest of this year or next, because the return probably isn't going to be a highly rated prospect.

 

He also had 5.5 years remaining on his contract at an average annual value north of $10M. Now he has 1.5 years left at a reasonable rate and an option year. Far different circumstances.

 

I have said this several times regarding the possibility of moving Rios - the SOX are not going to trade him if they don't get a meaningful piece back. Why on earth would they? No one is knocking on the door the minors in RF, he is paid what he deserves to be paid, if not less, and he is one of the guys that actually improves this team. If he a mental midget? Yes. Is he soft? Yes. Does he always play hard? No. But Rios is a very solid everyday player that is signed to a reasonable contract. If they can't get a very good prospect for him, keep him in RF until 2015, or until someone gets desperate and overpays. There is ZERO point in trading him off for nothing more than salary relief.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:04 PM)
He also had 5.5 years remaining on his contract at an average annual value north of $10M. Now he has 1.5 years left at a reasonable rate and an option year. Far different circumstances.

 

I have said this several times regarding the possibility of moving Rios - the SOX are not going to trade him if they don't get a meaningful piece back. Why on earth would they? No one is knocking on the door the minors in RF, he is paid what he deserves to be paid, if not less, and he is one of the guys that actually improves this team. If he a mental midget? Yes. Is he soft? Yes. Does he always play hard? No. But Rios is a very solid everyday player that is signed to a reasonable contract. If they can't get a very good prospect for him, keep him in RF until 2015, or until someone gets desperate and overpays. There is ZERO point in trading him off for nothing more than salary relief.

If he is worth the contract now, he was worth it back then when the average per year was even less, and he was entering his prime. It is interesting Gonzo had that quote from a scout, because the same thing was being said at the time the Sox acquired him. Maybe there is something to the theory he is bothered by trade talk, although he has loafed when he was untradeable.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 03:10 PM)
If he is worth the contract now, he was worth it back then when the average per year was even less, and he was entering his prime. It is interesting Gonzo had that quote from a scout, because the same thing was being said at the time the Sox acquired him. Maybe there is something to the theory he is bothered by trade talk, although he has loafed when he was untradeable.

Frankly, yes he was worth his contract at the time. Here's Fangraphs about him when they were trying to move money away:

Rios is a +3.5 to +4.5 win player in the prime of his career, and he’s due to make just under $60 million for the next five years. This is a really good contract for the Jays. Rios is an outstanding player being paid less than his market value. He’s as far from being a Wells-like albatross as you could possibly get.

 

Vernon Wells contract is awful, and the Jays have to regret giving it to him every single day. Alex Rios‘ contract is very good, and he’s one of the pieces Toronto should be building around. They are in no way similar.

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Overall, I wouldn't agree that Rios has earned all the money the Sox have paid him since 2009.

 

It hasn't been a coup by Kenny Williams, by any means.

 

And, going forward, it's not a contract you want on the books unless you also bring back Peavy, Danks and Ramirez, among others.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:14 PM)
Overall, I wouldn't agree that Rios has earned all the money the Sox have paid him since 2009.

 

It hasn't been a coup by Kenny Williams, by any means.

 

And, going forward, it's not a contract you want on the books unless you also bring back Peavy, Danks and Ramirez, among others.

 

Considering they got a guy who has been as good as Rios for merely assuming the contract, it was absolutely a coup by Williams. And, if you don't find an offer, you don't mind bringing Rios back. You certainly look to move him but it's not a big deal either way.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 03:14 PM)
Overall, I wouldn't agree that Rios has earned all the money the Sox have paid him since 2009.

 

It hasn't been a coup by Kenny Williams, by any means.

 

And, going forward, it's not a contract you want on the books unless you also bring back Peavy, Danks and Ramirez, among others.

Rios is close to having earned that money. The problem is the mysterious "one of the worst seasons in baseball history" in 2011 that really is a marvel in the middle of his career. If he'd been just "Bad" that season rather than "among the worst in baseball history" he'd have fully earned what the Sox have paid him.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 02:13 PM)
Frankly, yes he was worth his contract at the time. Here's Fangraphs about him when they were trying to move money away:

Why couldn't they get anything for him? That has nothing to do with Wells. I think it was his numbers declined a little bit and he was getting the reputation of not really caring. The 2010 BP when discussing Rios mentioned "the gaggle of scouts who think he just doesn't give a damn".

 

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