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Rosenthal: Sox should market Sale

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:41 PM)
Because if you trade Sale, you are going to end up trading everything on the roster. And, I mean, it's cool to get back prospects, and some of them turn out, but, well, these things have a tendency to fail and fall apart.

 

Whereas you keep Sale and you already have an ace, plus 2-3 other legitimate starters and a few others on the way, and then you can patchwork an offense back together and make the playoffs. The Giants have won 2 of the last 3 World Series with that exact same philosophy.

I'm just not sure that theory works over the course of a season as an AL team. Yes, it works in the NL and it works in the playoffs when the temps are generally much cooler and you can use strategery for a 7 game series, but just not sure we get there.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:41 PM)
Because if you trade Sale, you are going to end up trading everything on the roster. And, I mean, it's cool to get back prospects, and some of them turn out, but, well, these things have a tendency to fail and fall apart.

 

Whereas you keep Sale and you already have an ace, plus 2-3 other legitimate starters and a few others on the way, and then you can patchwork an offense back together and make the playoffs. The Giants have won 2 of the last 3 World Series with that exact same philosophy.

 

And unless you do a Sale for Stanton type of trade, you are taking a major step back until those guys are maybe able to step up to their potential. That could be a year, that could be never.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:47 PM)
And unless you do a Sale for Stanton type of trade, you are taking a major step back until those guys are maybe able to step up to their potential. That could be a year, that could be never.

 

Plus what GM is going to give you what you actually want to make this work?

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The only way you move Sale is if you literally get 5 of a teams top 8 prospects, in a farm that is highly regarded. It is just not worth it. Sale's contract is a steal, and he is one of the best 5 pitchers in the game. The SOX may not compete next year, or even in 2015, but they still have control over him for 4 more season after that. No way he is traded, because the package would literally have to decimate one of the best farm systems in baseball.

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Maybe the Sox look at Sale's record and realize he doesn't have TWTW

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I still say I will trade Sale if Mike Trout is on the market.

 

I don't care if a team is trading me the #1 prospect in baseball, I don't. Those guys don't always turn into all-stars. Heyward's been struggling. Weiters has been good but not great (.708 OPS this year). Delmon Young was a #1. Matsuzaka was a #1.

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We have to cross our fingers and pray he doesn't go down to elbow surgery in 2014 or 2015 or we'll all be revisiting this thread and saying what an idiot Hahn was for holding onto him too long when each year going forward (riddled with non-competitive teams and sub-.500 records and apathy) the White Sox ended up blowing the opportunity of a decade to rebuild their franchise and breathe new life back into it.

 

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:01 PM)
I still say I will trade Sale if Mike Trout is on the market.

 

I don't care if a team is trading me the #1 prospect in baseball, I don't. Those guys don't always turn into all-stars. Heyward's been struggling. Weiters has been good but not great (.708 OPS this year). Delmon Young was a #1. Matsuzaka was a #1.

 

Don't forget Josh Hamilton, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Pujols, Greinke, etc.

 

David Price, to a lesser extent. Strasburg isn't quite the same pitcher as before, either.

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From Jim Bowden at ESPN. This is speculation, not rumor: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post?id=7103

 

4. The Chicago White Sox trade Alex Rios and Alexei Ramirez to the Pittsburgh Pirates for outfielder Gregory Polanco, pitcher Nick Kingham and shortstop Jordy Mercer.

 

The Pirates solve the two major weaknesses in their lineup, with Rios taking over right field and Ramirez at shortstop. Rios, 32, has proven over the years to be a solid .270 hitter capable of 20 home runs. He is solid in right field and would be a good support bat for Andrew McCutchen, Pedro Alvarez and Starling Marte.

 

A change of scenery would help the 31-year-old Ramirez, who has hit 15 home runs and driven in 70 runs four different times in his career. He’s a solid defensive shortstop, too. Neither player is a difference-maker, but both would upgrade the Pirates at those positions.

 

In Polanco the White Sox would acquire an excellent outfield prospect who profiles as a .300 hitter with the speed to steal 20 bases. Kingham is an underrated quality starting pitching prospect, and Mercer is a stopgap shortstop. Mainly, the White Sox free up dollars and get younger as they build for the future. Their farm system is one of the weakest in the game, and they can use quantity and quality.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 06:04 PM)
Don't forget Josh Hamilton, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Pujols, Greinke, etc.

 

David Price, to a lesser extent. Strasburg isn't quite the same pitcher as before, either.

They weren't all BA number ones. Hamilton was. The rest weren't. I'll even give Hamilton a pass.

 

Let's just imagine that the Sox traded for the #1 prospect in baseball and that was the year Wieters was #1. They got a solid starting catcher putting up similar OPS to AJ. Is that a good deal? Yeah sure there'd be some additional parts, but is that a good deal for the Sox? He's a solid player but he's not putting up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:57 PM)
Maybe the Sox look at Sale's record and realize he doesn't have TWTW

Post of the year.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:09 PM)
They weren't all BA number ones. Hamilton was. The rest weren't. I'll even give Hamilton a pass.

 

Let's just imagine that the Sox traded for the #1 prospect in baseball and that was the year Wieters was #1. They got a solid starting catcher putting up similar OPS to AJ. Is that a good deal? Yeah sure there'd be some additional parts, but is that a good deal for the Sox? He's a solid player but he's not putting up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

 

 

 

 

Then BJ Upton and his current situation is another example....although he was very good up until the end for the Rays, albeit frequently disappointing based on his physical ability and what he actually got out of it.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:09 PM)
They weren't all BA number ones. Hamilton was. The rest weren't. I'll even give Hamilton a pass.

 

Let's just imagine that the Sox traded for the #1 prospect in baseball and that was the year Wieters was #1. They got a solid starting catcher putting up similar OPS to AJ. Is that a good deal? Yeah sure there'd be some additional parts, but is that a good deal for the Sox? He's a solid player but he's not putting up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

 

Weiters is a high end defender though. Last two years he's been a 3.5-4.5 WAR guy. That's about what Alex Rios has done.

 

(Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just suggesting a better way to look at his value than just OPS)

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:05 PM)
From Jim Bowden at ESPN. This is speculation, not rumor: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post?id=7103

 

 

Honestly, if that's all we can get for Rios AND Alexei then count me out. You know once it gets closer to the trade deadline, teams will get desperate. Only reason I say this is because if this whole Biogenesis operation is true and players to get suspended. The Rangers are a team that takes a hit and would be very desperate for a right fielder, and Rios is the best available. Wait for that and make a team overpay.

 

As for trading Sale, for me it has to be an absolutely ridiculous deal with my 2 teams I would trade him to are the Cardinals and DBacks.

 

Sale & Alexei to Cardinals for Adams, Wacha, Wong, Martiniez, Taverez, Tilson and Piscotty

 

Sale & Rios to the DBacks for Skaggs, Bradley, Eaton, Davidson, Owings, Holmberg, Lamb and Chafin.

 

It would take a lot, but teams would not deplete their systems for this.

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Must be a slow day at the office for Ken. Since the Sox do not have to or want to get rid of Sale, a team actually coming in and offering the package of top, MLB ready prospects to get him are slim.

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Sure Ken. I would love Mike Trout on my team. Seriously, short of a young cost controlled player on the verge of winning a MVP or Cy Young coming back, you have to be retarded to trade him.

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Rosenthal is underestimating just how good that contract of Sale's is. Like, if it weren't Evan Longoria, we're talking best in baseball good. The only real caveat is his health, and so far he's actually pitching better, with more velocity than last year.

 

There is no player, or group of players, that we could get for Sale that would be worth his contract. I wouldn't even take Trout - He has 1.5 cheap seasons left and then he is going to get the biggest arb raise ever, if he isn't signed to a 8-figure a year extension first.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 11:01 PM)
I still say I will trade Sale if Mike Trout is on the market.

 

I don't care if a team is trading me the #1 prospect in baseball, I don't. Those guys don't always turn into all-stars. Heyward's been struggling. Weiters has been good but not great (.708 OPS this year). Delmon Young was a #1. Matsuzaka was a #1.

Yep. The number one prospect's ceiling is as valuable as Sale on a year to year basis. No one should do that trade.

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QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:28 PM)
Rosenthal is underestimating just how good that contract of Sale's is. Like, if it weren't Evan Longoria, we're talking best in baseball good. The only real caveat is his health, and so far he's actually pitching better, with more velocity than last year.

 

There is no player, or group of players, that we could get for Sale that would be worth his contract. I wouldn't even take Trout - He has 1.5 cheap seasons left and then he is going to get the biggest arb raise ever, if he isn't signed to a 8-figure a year extension first.

 

I just want to acknowledge that said you wouldn't trade Sale for Mike Trout.

 

I get your point on the contract, but no one will have a problem paying Trout big-time.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:17 PM)
Honestly, if that's all we can get for Rios AND Alexei then count me out. You know once it gets closer to the trade deadline, teams will get desperate. Only reason I say this is because if this whole Biogenesis operation is true and players to get suspended. The Rangers are a team that takes a hit and would be very desperate for a right fielder, and Rios is the best available. Wait for that and make a team overpay.

 

I don't know, I actually think that would be a really nice return.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:17 PM)
Honestly, if that's all we can get for Rios AND Alexei then count me out. You know once it gets closer to the trade deadline, teams will get desperate. Only reason I say this is because if this whole Biogenesis operation is true and players to get suspended. The Rangers are a team that takes a hit and would be very desperate for a right fielder, and Rios is the best available. Wait for that and make a team overpay.

 

As for trading Sale, for me it has to be an absolutely ridiculous deal with my 2 teams I would trade him to are the Cardinals and DBacks.

 

Sale & Alexei to Cardinals for Adams, Wacha, Wong, Martiniez, Taverez, Tilson and Piscotty

 

Sale & Rios to the DBacks for Skaggs, Bradley, Eaton, Davidson, Owings, Holmberg, Lamb and Chafin.

 

It would take a lot, but teams would not deplete their systems for this.

 

 

Polanco is a better prospect than anyone you are getting for Rios or Ramirez. The kid may end being better than McCutchen and Marte and moving McCutchen to a corner spot. I am pretty sure Pittsburgh would just acquire a Nate Schierholtz type if the Sox are asking for Polanco. Not going to happen.

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That is an unrealistic-good return for Alexei and Rios, both of whom are expensive and on the wrong side of 30.

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Yeah ok maybe i'd take Trout. But LA will never trade him and no one else is even close to the value of Sale's contract so its a moot point.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:31 PM)
I don't know, I actually think that would be a really nice return.

 

Agreed. And maybe you should post it in the Rios thread.

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So when I posed this suggestion to the board two weeks ago, specifically if you are willing to trade Sale for the right offer, 70% of the board voted no.

 

I like how people are more open to the idea right now, just proves I am not crazy with my idea.

 

I would trade Sale for the right offer in a heart beat, and I love rooting for the guy. As Rosenthal point out, none of our current players can net us a premium, top prospect, with the exception of Alexei + Rios in a deal. We have plenty of average to good prospects in the farm, but we badly need some premium prospects who can hit and are close to major league ready.

 

Also the risk of Sale getting injured or losing effectiveness over the duration of his deal is pretty high, I wouldn't want to take that risk.

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