Rosenthal: Sox should market Sale

[fathom]

Would never make sense for them. He's the one guy they NEED on their big league team next year. Everyone else is fair game and there is plenty of talent in the "everyone else" group swing a deal.

 

Of the 4 guys you mentioned, I don't think any of them have a truly high ceiling. I'm not a huge fan of Wacha.

[Jake]

Of the 4 guys you mentioned, I don't think any of them have a truly high ceiling. I'm not a huge fan of Wacha.

 

Well, we can put Carlos Martinez or Trevor Rosenthal in there if you prefer. I agree that Wong doesn't have a high ceiling, but is a pretty sure bet to be a rather productive player. I think Adams has a pretty high ceiling, at least from a pure offensive standpoint. Piscotty needs to grow into his power potential to realize his true ceiling.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I would trade Sale for Matt Adams, Kolten Wong, Michael Wacha, and Stephen Piscotty. We get three guys you can pretty much plug right in, they get an ace without really shaking up the big league club's plans. Our pitching will still be great and Wacha can walk right in and be a potential ace as well.

That would be horrific

[Quin]

Would never make sense for them. He's the one guy they NEED on their big league team next year. Everyone else is fair game and there is plenty of talent in the "everyone else" group swing a deal.

 

They don't need Sale then if they need him.

[knightni]

In my opinion, with his throwing motion... Sale is destined for TJ within the next 4 years. Strike while the iron is hot.

[Quin]

I'd definitely be skeptical of moving Sale, but if the Rangers or Cardinals put together a crazy package I can't say I wouldn't consider.

 

That being said I don't think either team would move Profar or Taveras respectively.

 

Neither team gets Sale then.

 

You have to give elite prospects (plural) for an established elite pitcher under contract.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Neither team gets Sale then.

 

You have to give elite prospects (plural) for an established elite pitcher under contract.

And they better be giving up a whole lot more than that.

[caulfield12]

Still talking about Santiago NOT being in the future rotation, possibly...c'mon.

 

They need to do more than just trade 3 relievers...otherwise, they'll be forced to spend big-time in free agency, or they're going to punt on 2014 (making the presence of Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Danks and Dunn basically dead weight, and the reason for not dealing them now an enigma). Choose a path though, being in the middle isn't a good place.

 

 

General manager Rick Hahn paints a rosier picture for the White Sox's future than many observers and fans can see.

 

Hahn believes the team can be strong because its rotation is under contract through next year and ranks first in the American League in opponents' batting average (.244) and third in ERA (3.89).

 

That was before Dylan Axelrod was peppered for seven runs Wednesday night in an 8-5 loss to the AL Central-leading Tigers.

 

Hahn wouldn't address questions regarding potential trades leading up to the July 31 non-waiver deadline before Wednesday night's game. But from his comments to four beat writers after spending most of the afternoon on his cellphone, it appears the Sox are looking for young hitters in return as part of any deals that likely would involve relievers Jesse Crain, Matt Lindstrom and Matt Thornton.

 

Many teams also are interested in right fielder Alex Rios, who could command two bona fide prospects.

 

Hahn has dispatched several scouts to evaluate prospects from minor league organizations, including the Braves, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox.

 

And Hahn emphasized the Sox won't rush any of their prospects just because a position may become open. The 2014 rotation could consist of All-Star Chris Sale, John Danks, Jose Quintana, Jake Peavy (who will pitch Sunday for Double-A Birmingham in a rehab start) and either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt) or Triple-A Charlotte standout Erik Johnson (if Axelrod's struggles continue).

 

“You are going to compete in this league with pitching, and we feel we have the nucleus that is going to help us compete,” Hahn said. “The bulk of our struggles this year have been on the offensive side. That's something we are going to have to improve.

 

“We are not going to rush guys up because there is an opening at position X. We aren't going to put our best guy in the system in the big leagues because there's a need. We have to be careful these guys develop at their natural pace. We tend to be aggressive and give guys opportunities as soon as they prove they can handle it.

 

“But when a guy is going to make that jump is going to be dictated more by their personal development case as opposed to our need.”

 

Offense is a priority because the Sox entered Wednesday's game ranked 10th in the AL in batting average despite their 23-hit attack Tuesday and because of the overall struggles of top prospects Carlos Sanchez, Jared Mitchell and Trayce Thompson. On the bright side, Sanchez, 21, was 8-for-19 in his last four games for Charlotte.

 

“I think he is still the youngest player in the International League,” Hahn said. “You have to judge his performance a little bit through that prism.”

 

The Sox haven't settled on a permanent position for Sanchez, who can play shortstop and second base.

 

“We are leaving things open,” Hahn said. “There's no need to decide yet, so we won't.”

mgonzales@tribune.com

[Dick Allen]

Still talking about Santiago NOT being in the future rotation, possibly...c'mon.

 

They need to do more than just trade 3 relievers...otherwise, they'll be forced to spend big-time in free agency, or they're going to punt on 2014 (making the presence of Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Danks and Dunn basically dead weight, and the reason for not dealing them now an enigma). Choose a path though, being in the middle isn't a good place.

 

 

General manager Rick Hahn paints a rosier picture for the White Sox's future than many observers and fans can see.

 

Hahn believes the team can be strong because its rotation is under contract through next year and ranks first in the American League in opponents' batting average (.244) and third in ERA (3.89).

 

That was before Dylan Axelrod was peppered for seven runs Wednesday night in an 8-5 loss to the AL Central-leading Tigers.

 

Hahn wouldn't address questions regarding potential trades leading up to the July 31 non-waiver deadline before Wednesday night's game. But from his comments to four beat writers after spending most of the afternoon on his cellphone, it appears the Sox are looking for young hitters in return as part of any deals that likely would involve relievers Jesse Crain, Matt Lindstrom and Matt Thornton.

 

Many teams also are interested in right fielder Alex Rios, who could command two bona fide prospects.

 

Hahn has dispatched several scouts to evaluate prospects from minor league organizations, including the Braves, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox.

 

And Hahn emphasized the Sox won't rush any of their prospects just because a position may become open. The 2014 rotation could consist of All-Star Chris Sale, John Danks, Jose Quintana, Jake Peavy (who will pitch Sunday for Double-A Birmingham in a rehab start) and either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt) or Triple-A Charlotte standout Erik Johnson (if Axelrod's struggles continue).

 

“You are going to compete in this league with pitching, and we feel we have the nucleus that is going to help us compete,” Hahn said. “The bulk of our struggles this year have been on the offensive side. That's something we are going to have to improve.

 

“We are not going to rush guys up because there is an opening at position X. We aren't going to put our best guy in the system in the big leagues because there's a need. We have to be careful these guys develop at their natural pace. We tend to be aggressive and give guys opportunities as soon as they prove they can handle it.

 

“But when a guy is going to make that jump is going to be dictated more by their personal development case as opposed to our need.”

 

Offense is a priority because the Sox entered Wednesday's game ranked 10th in the AL in batting average despite their 23-hit attack Tuesday and because of the overall struggles of top prospects Carlos Sanchez, Jared Mitchell and Trayce Thompson. On the bright side, Sanchez, 21, was 8-for-19 in his last four games for Charlotte.

 

“I think he is still the youngest player in the International League,” Hahn said. “You have to judge his performance a little bit through that prism.”

 

The Sox haven't settled on a permanent position for Sanchez, who can play shortstop and second base.

 

“We are leaving things open,” Hahn said. “There's no need to decide yet, so we won't.”

mgonzales@tribune.com

It's the second time in a few days I've read about Santiago being a part of a trade. The Sox obviously don't hold Hector in as high of regard as many on this board. Maybe they don't think his style will translate into long lasting continued success. Maybe they think he is an injury risk. It obviously is something other than results.

[caulfield12]

It's the second time in a few days I've read about Santiago being a part of a trade. The Sox obviously don't hold Hector in as high of regard as many on this board. Maybe they don't think his style will translate into long lasting continued success. Maybe they think he is an injury risk. It obviously is something other than results.

 

 

Where did you get the trade part?

 

Because they were hesitating to name him in the future rotation and putting Erik Johnson's name out there as well?

 

 

I don't understand why they would ever want to hold onto Peavy and Danks ($30+ million per year, 25% of payroll) when they already have Santiago and Quintana...?

 

 

[Balta1701]

Where did you get the trade part?

 

Because they were hesitating to name him in the future rotation and putting Erik Johnson's name out there as well?

 

 

I don't understand why they would ever want to hold onto Peavy and Danks ($30+ million per year, 25% of payroll) when they already have Santiago and Quintana...?

If they're wanting to compete next year, I'd rather have Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, player X than Sale, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson, player x.

[ptatc]

It's the second time in a few days I've read about Santiago being a part of a trade. The Sox obviously don't hold Hector in as high of regard as many on this board. Maybe they don't think his style will translate into long lasting continued success. Maybe they think he is an injury risk. It obviously is something other than results.

Could it be the opposite? The Sox like him but feel he will get the most back of any young starter not including sale?-

[Dick Allen]

Where did you get the trade part?

 

Because they were hesitating to name him in the future rotation and putting Erik Johnson's name out there as well?

 

 

I don't understand why they would ever want to hold onto Peavy and Danks ($30+ million per year, 25% of payroll) when they already have Santiago and Quintana...?

I read where a scout said the scouts were there for Santiago the other night and this said if he's not dealt after his name.

 

either Hector Santiago (if he isn't dealt)

[Balta1701]

Could it be the opposite? The Sox like him but feel he will get the most back of any young starter not including sale?-

I can't figure out why he would. Are teams that obsessed with strikeouts and nothing else?

 

I mean, he ought to bring back a fortune if he's traded, but I can't figure out why he'd be so much more valuable than Quintana for example.

[caulfield12]

If they're wanting to compete next year, I'd rather have Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, player X than Sale, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson, player x.

 

 

And you really believe they're going to commit to an additional $30-50 million per year in free agent contracts this offseason to make that happen?

 

Even if they WANTED to spend that money, there's no guarantee they can get that package that makes sense for us to compete from among Ellsbury, Choo, Granderson, Utley, Morales, Lind (he'll probably stay in TOR) and McCann.

 

 

And this whole concept of trading Santiago for a so-so or decent return vs. a bounty for Sale...they're going to end up regretting it, IMO.

Edited July 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

And you really believe they're going to commit to an additional $30-50 million per year in free agent contracts this offseason to make that happen?

 

Even if they WANTED to spend that money, there's no guarantee they can get that package that makes sense for us to compete from among Ellsbury, Choo, Granderson, Utley, Morales, Lind (he'll probably stay in TOR) and McCann.

 

 

And this whole concept of trading Santiago for a so-so or decent return vs. a bounty for Sale...they're going to end up regretting it, IMO.

Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, Crain off the books. $25 million in additional TV money. There will be plenty of money to spend on hitters.

[caulfield12]

Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, Crain off the books. $25 million in additional TV money. There will be plenty of money to spend on hitters.

 

 

But that same $25 million from every team (but the Marlins) will also be chasing that same small group of elite players and driving the contracts for Ellsbury, Choo and McCann into the stratosphere.

 

That's the downside.

 

Then you get stuck with a so-so contract for Granderson when you didn't even really want him in the first place, but you have to take SOMEONE to give hope to the fans and marketing department.

Edited July 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

In my opinion, with his throwing motion... Sale is destined for TJ within the next 4 years. Strike while the iron is hot.

 

I really don't think his motion is that much different than Randy Johnson's, and RJ stayed healthy pretty much his entire career.

[caulfield12]

I really don't think his motion is that much different than Randy Johnson's, and RJ stayed healthy pretty much his entire career.

 

He's much thinner than the Big Unit...that's another part of the concern.

 

Johnson was always THIN, but not RAIL THIN.

Edited July 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

But that same $25 million from every team (but the Marlins) will also be chasing that same small group of elite players and driving the contracts for Ellsbury, Choo and McCann into the stratosphere.

 

That's the downside.

 

Then you get stuck with a so-so contract for Granderson when you didn't even really want him in the first place, but you have to take SOMEONE to give hope to the fans and marketing department.

I wish and pray every day that people will stop pretending the marketing department is a good reason to do or not do something.

 

You want to market the team? Win ballgames. You want to hurt the team? Lose. You want to destroy the team to the point contraction gets talked about? Lose for 8 years.

[ptatc]

I can't figure out why he would. Are teams that obsessed with strikeouts and nothing else?

 

I mean, he ought to bring back a fortune if he's traded, but I can't figure out why he'd be so much more valuable than Quintana for example.

Santiago has better raw stuff and is young. Maybe some GMs will like to work with that. I would assume that the Sox will trade which ever one another team will offer the most for. One of the young pitchers is going whether it's Quintana or Santiago.1

[caulfield12]

I wish and pray every day that people will stop pretending the marketing department is a good reason to do or not do something.

 

You want to market the team? Win ballgames. You want to hurt the team? Lose. You want to destroy the team to the point contraction gets talked about? Lose for 8 years.

 

 

You spent the better part of the first half of the season campaigning against rebuilding.

 

So you're essentially advocating, despite all historical evidence to the contrary (with the notable exceptions of Albert Belle and Adam Dunn) that they're going to give 3-4-5 year contracts to at least 2 and as many as 3 big-ticket free agents coming into 2014?

 

What if that's the plan, and they don't end up signing anyone but retreads/cast-offs/players coming off injuries?

 

If you're any of those FA players we keep mentioning, there's no other reason than money for coming to Chicago...so why would you choose Chicago instead of a contender if the money was fairly even? If we get into bidding wars, we lose every single time because at a certain point, Hahn's conservative/risk-averse nature will kick in and they'll drop out of the bidding.

Edited July 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

But that same $25 million from every team (but the Marlins) will also be chasing that same small group of elite players and driving the contracts for Ellsbury, Choo and McCann into the stratosphere.

 

That's the downside.

 

Then you get stuck with a so-so contract for Granderson when you didn't even really want him in the first place, but you have to take SOMEONE to give hope to the fans and marketing department.

 

Do you really think the signing of one FA like Granderson would make-or-break attendance? One way or another, they will sell out Opening Day, then people will wait and see how the teams plays, FAs or no FAs.

[witesoxfan]

He's much thinner than the Big Unit...that's another part of the concern.

 

Johnson was always THIN, but not RAIL THIN.

 

[caulfield12]

Santiago has better raw stuff and is young. Maybe some GMs will like to work with that. I would assume that the Sox will trade which ever one another team will offer the most for. One of the young pitchers is going whether it's Quintana or Santiago.1

 

 

Unless they find buyers for Peavy AND John Danks, a left-hander who has been pitching much better recently and is an experienced veteran with Game 163/playoff baseball experience, as well as the 2010 season.