2 Realistic trade options I came up with

[Eminor3rd]

Wasn't it a labrum? Either way, he's a guy I'm staying away from.

 

Eesh, that's much worse. Yeah I just meant that the Cards may be hesitant to deal their young depth if they aren't sure about Garcia's health.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Wow. I realize this is White Sox board and everything, but there is a pretty ridiculous overvaluing of our players here. Beckham, Santiago, and Beck is a lot to give up? For anything??? The questions of Eithier's contract are legit, but get out of here with Beckham and Santiago getting us any real players in return.

 

And my trades are crazy but people actually think we can get a 21 year old pitcher who is a top 20 prospect in return for Alexei Ramirez?? I'd say that's way more out of touch with reality than my trades.

 

[Balta1701]

Beckham, Santiago, and Beck is a lot to give up?

Um, yes.

 

A 22 year old already in AA who was a 2nd round draft pick and has an ERA in the low 3's at each stop is quite a valuable commodity. A 25 year old, left-handed starting pitcher who has 4 years of team control remaining, threw 150 innings this year, throws in the low to mid 90's, put up a 120 ERA+ (3.56 ERA in the Cell) and put up really solid strikeout numbers is extremely valuable and should be treated as such.

[Balta1701]

And my trades are crazy but people actually think we can get a 21 year old pitcher who is a top 20 prospect in return for Alexei Ramirez?? I'd say that's way more out of touch with reality than my trades.

Then there should be zero motivation to trade him.

[sircaffey]

Then there should be zero motivation to trade him.

Oh please. No one's giving up an elite prospect like Martinez for him. But maybe you can get a top 100 guy and a couple of interesting team top 20s.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Um, yes.

 

A 22 year old already in AA who was a 2nd round draft pick and has an ERA in the low 3's at each stop is quite a valuable commodity. A 25 year old, left-handed starting pitcher who has 4 years of team control remaining, threw 150 innings this year, throws in the low to mid 90's, put up a 120 ERA+ (3.56 ERA in the Cell) and put up really solid strikeout numbers is extremely valuable and should be treated as such.

 

Sure, Beck had a nice ERA but he managed to strike out a grand total of 4 guys per 9 in A+ ball. Unless he somehow develops a strikeout pitch he's never going to be able to consistently succeed in the majors. He's a pretty marginal prospect that was a throw in for me to be honest.

 

And what exactly do you think of Santiago going forward and what do you think his trade value is?

[harfman77]

Trades I can see:

 

Beckham to the Blue Jays for Anthony Gose - Change of scenery for both, Sox need to open a middle IF spot and the Jays are overloaded in the OF.

 

Hector Santiago and Viciedo to the Mariners with for Kyle Seager, Tom Wilhemsen, and Charlie Furbush. Sox get a 3B who can plug in right away and patches up the bullpen, Seattle gets a solid #2-3 starter to fit in between Felix and Walker and solid hitter to replace the production of Seager.

 

LF De Aza

RF Garcia

DH Dunn

1B Abreu

3B Seager

SS Ramirez

2B Semien/L Gacia

C Brayan Pena/Phlegley

CF Gose

[caulfield12]

Trades I can see:

 

Beckham to the Blue Jays for Anthony Gose - Change of scenery for both, Sox need to open a middle IF spot and the Jays are overloaded in the OF.

 

Hector Santiago and Viciedo to the Mariners with for Kyle Seager, Tom Wilhemsen, and Charlie Furbush. Sox get a 3B who can plug in right away and patches up the bullpen, Seattle gets a solid #2-3 starter to fit in between Felix and Walker and solid hitter to replace the production of Seager.

 

LF De Aza

RF Garcia

DH Dunn

1B Abreu

3B Seager

SS Ramirez

2B Semien/L Gacia

C Brayan Pena/Phlegley

CF Gose

 

 

 

That's an atrocious bottom 3 and probably the worst outfield (offensively) in baseball.

 

And Garcia's not a 2 hole hitter by any stretch of the imagination.

[daggins]

Seattle needs offense as bad as the Sox do, they aren't trading one of the only hitters they have.

 

Gose is bad but still probably has more value than Beckham.

 

A realistic return for Beckham is hard to imagine, mostly because it will be brutally underwhelming. Like, if we're lucky its a similar return as Thornton.

[SoxFan1]

I think it's funny that "David Freese sucks" but would have had the 2nd best OPS+ on the WSox last season and highest OBP.

 

Ok.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think it's funny that "David Freese sucks" but would have had the 2nd best OPS+ on the WSox last season and highest OBP.

 

Ok.

 

Thank you sir. And not to mention last year was his career low in OPS.

 

[BamaDoc]

Freese would be an upgrade at third but would be pretty old by the time we rebuild. I would go younger prospects. Cardinals don't have a ton of infielders in their top 20 per MLB.com but something like Cooney a LHP and 14th ranked and perhaps and either a replacement like Kozma or maybe a young outfielder close to ready like Piscotty or Ramsey. I think you have a better chance of two mid prospects than any of their top 5.

[LittleHurt05]

I think it's funny that "David Freese sucks" but would have had the 2nd best OPS+ on the WSox last season and highest OBP.

 

Ok.

 

That just means the 2013 White Sox sucked, not that Freese is that good.

[Balta1701]

Sure, Beck had a nice ERA but he managed to strike out a grand total of 4 guys per 9 in A+ ball. Unless he somehow develops a strikeout pitch he's never going to be able to consistently succeed in the majors. He's a pretty marginal prospect that was a throw in for me to be honest.

 

And what exactly do you think of Santiago going forward and what do you think his trade value is?

Beck's a sinker-baller.

 

Santiago's trade value ought to be really high. The Sox really f***ed with him the last 2 years and he still put up an ERA in the mid 3's. His fWAR is hurt because he didn't get put in a position where he could throw enough innings - he'd probably have doubled his WAR value if he'd been able to get closer to 200 innings, but they put him in the bullpen for over a year and bounced him back and forth to the rotation over and over so he never got stretched out and tired out. Worse, he never got the time to really refine his offspeed stuff he needed.

 

His ceiling is through the roof...but I fear he may not reach it in Chicago because I feel they won't commit to him. I think he's a #3 starter on a good team or maybe even a #2.

[TaylorStSox]

It's pretty clear the Sox had Beck working on something and pitching to contact. I don't question the Sox approach to developing pitching. They're probably the best in baseball.

[Chicago White Sox]

Sure, Beck had a nice ERA but he managed to strike out a grand total of 4 guys per 9 in A+ ball. Unless he somehow develops a strikeout pitch he's never going to be able to consistently succeed in the majors. He's a pretty marginal prospect that was a throw in for me to be honest.

 

And what exactly do you think of Santiago going forward and what do you think his trade value is?

Beck's K rate jumped to 7.07/9 when he moved up to AA. My guess is he was working on a specific pitch at A+. Either way, he's more than just a throw-in type prospect.

 

As for Santiago, I'm not sure why you're acting like young pitching isn't extremely valuable. Sure he has some flaws, like his inability to go deep into starts, but he's still been very productive and has immense potential. Remember, this kid has only been a starter for a short period of time. There's every reason to believe he will continue to get better with more experience. If you move him, you better be getting a talented, young position player, not some Ethier type.

[Balta1701]

Sure he has some flaws, like his inability to go deep into starts

And it's worth stressing more specifically than you did...this is exactly the flaw you'd expect from a guy who kept getting put into the bullpen and didn't have a chance to work on controlling his offspeed stuff.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think it's funny that "David Freese sucks" but would have had the 2nd best OPS+ on the WSox last season and highest OBP.

 

Ok.

Did you happen to write this?

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-f...s-david-freese/

[sircaffey]

And it's worth stressing more specifically than you did...this is exactly the flaw you'd expect from a guy who kept getting put into the bullpen and didn't have a chance to work on controlling his offspeed stuff.

He's always had horrible control. How many years until you accept that it's not going to get much better?

[Balta1701]

He's always had horrible control. How many years until you accept that it's not going to get much better?

His BB/9 was 5.1 in 2012 and 4.3 last year, and his numbers got worse during a few starts in the 2nd half when he was clearly tiring out.

[TaylorStSox]

He's always had horrible control. How many years until you accept that it's not going to get much better?

 

Are you suggesting the book has already been written about a guy with 224 career ML innings?

[sircaffey]

His BB/9 was 5.1 in 2012 and 4.3 last year, and his numbers got worse during a few starts in the 2nd half when he was clearly tiring out.

lol. I guess going from completely awful to just really awful is an improvement. So because Hector walked 40 and not 34 in 2012, you are concluding that his control got significantly better in 2013? Hector lacks the fastball command that all good SP have.

[sircaffey]

Are you suggesting the book has already been written about a guy with 224 career ML innings?

No, I am simply not buying into the top of the rotation hype some people here are throwing around for Hector. I think he can be a very good RP or decent #4/5 SP.

[TaylorStSox]

No, I am simply not buying into the top of the rotation hype some people here are throwing around for Hector. I think he can be a very good RP or decent #4/5 SP.

Fair enough. I think he maxes out at a number 3 and doesn't have a good enough secondary pitch to be a bullpen pitcher in high leverage situations. It will take care of itself. More often than not, if you don't throw strikes, you aren't going to pitch for the Sox for very long.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Beck's a sinker-baller.

 

Santiago's trade value ought to be really high. The Sox really f***ed with him the last 2 years and he still put up an ERA in the mid 3's. His fWAR is hurt because he didn't get put in a position where he could throw enough innings - he'd probably have doubled his WAR value if he'd been able to get closer to 200 innings, but they put him in the bullpen for over a year and bounced him back and forth to the rotation over and over so he never got stretched out and tired out. Worse, he never got the time to really refine his offspeed stuff he needed.

 

His ceiling is through the roof...but I fear he may not reach it in Chicago because I feel they won't commit to him. I think he's a #3 starter on a good team or maybe even a #2.

 

 

You're bias is clouding you're judgement. Santiago is 4/5 starter on a good team. He has good, not great stuff, marginal control, and has never shown the ability to get into the 7th inning on a regular basis. He'll keep you in the game for 6 innings, which is definitely a good thing and he is a valuable member of a team. But he's just not a premium talent, he kinda is what he is. His trade value really isn't as high as you think it is.