hi8is Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 07:08 AM) I find it kind of funny that nobody got in last year yet this year is the deepest group and guys may not get votes in order to keep others on the ballot. Thomas, Maddux, Glavine and Piazza should all get in. That is it. Next year Bonds and Clemens. Makes the PED statement a little. Three players that have never been attributed to PEDs in then let the PED connected guys have their day next year. I hope that those connected to PEDs never have their day in the hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Thomas should be a first ballot HOF'er no doubt. You'll have some complain about his defense but you don't make the HOF based defense. A great SS or OF may get consideration because they were great defensively but you still have to put up the numbers on ofense. I know there's speculation about Piazza and PED's but has there ever been anything concrete? I don't remember him being named in any reports. Unless, it's a well know but un-reported fact, which I find hard to believe in these times, he should be in. You can't/shouldn't keep a guy out because you think he did something. There has to be proof, in my book, if you're going to keep someone out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) Thomas should be a first ballot HOF'er no doubt. You'll have some complain about his defense but you don't make the HOF based defense. A great SS or OF may get consideration because they were great defensively but you still have to put up the numbers on ofense. I know there's speculation about Piazza and PED's but has there ever been anything concrete? I don't remember him being named in any reports. Unless, it's a well know but un-reported fact, which I find hard to believe in these times, he should be in. You can't/shouldn't keep a guy out because you think he did something. There has to be proof, in my book, if you're going to keep someone out. http://www.metstoday.com/8374/12-13-offsea...dmits-peds-use/ http://metsblog.com/news/mike-piazza/mike-...-upcoming-book/ http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2013...ns-hall-of-fame On the issue of performance-enhancing drugs, Piazza claims he never used any illegal substances. However, he admits he used androstenedione and “greenies,” both of which were legal at the time but have since been banned by Major League Baseball. Borrowed from the comments section of Suthsidesox recent article on Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 So assuming he gets in (he should) Im gonna request a couple days off in Cooperstown NY and go to the ceremony. Any other STers making the trip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) A Fangraphs article suggests Franks is not inducted this year, based on the HOF's unwritten rule of only electing a maximum of 3 players a year. They think Frank would be the 4th guy in. Edited December 1, 2013 by Chilihead90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) So assuming he gets in (he should) Im gonna request a couple days off in Cooperstown NY and go to the ceremony. Any other STers making the trip? Might have a shot, depends on how the job search goes this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) A Fangraphs article suggests Franks is not inducted this year, based on the HOF's unwritten rule of only electing a maximum of 3 players a year. They think Frank would be the 4th guy in. Exactly why I think he'll get screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) A Fangraphs article suggests Franks is not inducted this year, based on the HOF's unwritten rule of only electing a maximum of 3 players a year. They think Frank would be the 4th guy in. Yeah that article assumes Morris gets in. I could see it going either way. Maddux, Biggio, Glavine, Morris are threats to Thomas this year. I don't think Mussina or Kent stand a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) A Fangraphs article suggests Franks is not inducted this year, based on the HOF's unwritten rule of only electing a maximum of 3 players a year. They think Frank would be the 4th guy in. Frank should be #2 behind Maddux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 They won't resist the Maddux-Glavine pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) So assuming he gets in (he should) Im gonna request a couple days off in Cooperstown NY and go to the ceremony. Any other STers making the trip? If it was a few years ago I would, but can't make it happen next summer. Growing up he was always my favorite baseball player and I've never been to the Hall so it would be the perfect combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (ROC Sox Fan @ Nov 26, 2013 -> 05:50 PM) Went to Cooperstown in 2012 but would definitely be up to make the trip again for The Big Hurt's induction (doesn't hurt to live 4 hours away). The hotels in Cooperstown were pretty expensive on a non-inductee weekend (although the town was overrun with little leaguers since there's apparently always a summer tourney going on there) so we stayed in Oneonta (~20 min away IIRC, and plenty of places to eat (great pizzerias) there since it's a college town). That's where I went to college. It's a great college town and you're right, it's only about 20 minutes from Cooperstown and much cheaper to stay. Living only a couple hours from Cooperstown, I go up there usually once or twice a summer, so I will absolutely be there if Frank gets elected. Also, just an FYI, if anyone does go up to Cooperstown, check out Ommegang Brewery. It's about 2 miles from downtown Cooperstown and they are a great Belgian-style brewery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) So assuming he gets in (he should) Im gonna request a couple days off in Cooperstown NY and go to the ceremony. Any other STers making the trip? I'm thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) I'm thinking about it. Me too. I would love to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think Morris falls short, and they go Maddux, Glavine Thomas to get in. Too bad Dale Murphy dropped off, he's my crusade. My ballot would be: Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Morris, Biggio, Raines, McGriff, Mattingly, Trammel, Martinez. Hard to leave it at 10, would love to add Smith, Mussina and Walker. Piazza is also an iffy case, PED-wise, so that's a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) I think Morris falls short, and they go Maddux, Glavine Thomas to get in. Too bad Dale Murphy dropped off, he's my crusade. My ballot would be: Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Morris, Biggio, Raines, McGriff, Mattingly, Trammel, Martinez. Hard to leave it at 10, would love to add Smith, Mussina and Walker. Piazza is also an iffy case, PED-wise, so that's a tough one. No matter how hard I try and no matter how many times I look at their stats, I simply cannot come up with a reason as to why people think Don Mattingly and Jack Morris are Hall of Famers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) No matter how hard I try and no matter how many times I look at their stats, I simply cannot come up with a reason as to why people think Don Mattingly and Jack Morris are Hall of Famers. Jack Morris is solely on his epic post season performances. Don Mattingly simply because he played for the Yankees when the Yankees sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) No matter how hard I try and no matter how many times I look at their stats, I simply cannot come up with a reason as to why people think Don Mattingly and Jack Morris are Hall of Famers. Agreed 100%. I saw both of their careers. They were both really, really good, heck, amazing for some stretches. Hall of Famers? No. Neither ever stood out to me as being dominant for any real amount of time, like say a Frank Thomas or Greg Maddux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 02:41 PM) No matter how hard I try and no matter how many times I look at their stats, I simply cannot come up with a reason as to why people think Don Mattingly and Jack Morris are Hall of Famers. Because they're not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) Agreed 100%. I saw both of their careers. They were both really, really good, heck, amazing for some stretches. Hall of Famers? No. Neither ever stood out to me as being dominant for any real amount of time, like say a Frank Thomas or Greg Maddux. Mattingly really only had a 6 year stretch where he could be considered HOF level. If that 6 year stretch had lasted 10 years, then maybe I coul see him being in. Other than the obvious post season performances, nothing really stands out about Morris. He has a fair amount of wins but all his other stats are rather pedestrian. If Morris gets in, then come 10-15 years from now, people better be talking about Buehrle getting in. Edited December 2, 2013 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) Jack Morris is solely on his epic post season performances. Don Mattingly simply because he played for the Yankees when the Yankees sucked. Partially true for Morris, though I think his overall case is pretty strong. Not at all true for Mattingly, at least for me, since I despise the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) I used to be on the Jack Morris side, and I'm not against him getting in. But I understand how the modern stats can decrease his value. It was easier to just say he won 250+ games, averaged 240+ innings for 14 years, 175 complete games, and won championships with three different teams, including winning one of the most famous Game 7's. If Morris got in eventually, and was considered the worst starting pitcher in the Hall---well somebody has to be the worst, and he wouldn't be a bad one. On Mattingly, he was awesome, and it was a cool experience to watch him play at his peak at Comiskey Park. To me, he's a lot like Kirby Puckett, but Mattingly won an MVP. In his first year of eligibility, he got 28.2%. So he had support to begin with, but then voters just gave up on him. He was a Hall of Fame talent that got hurt too soon. Edited December 2, 2013 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Mattingly really only had a 6 year stretch where he could be considered HOF level. If that 6 year stretch had lasted 10 years, then maybe I coul see him being in. Other than the obvious post season performances, nothing really stands out about Morris. He has a fair amount of wins but all his other stats are rather pedestrian. If Morris gets in, then come 10-15 years from now, people better be talking about Buehrle getting in. Morris also never won an individual award, such as the Cy Young. He never finished higher than 3rd. He won 20 games three times in an era where your top starters were making 36ish starts a year. He was only a 5 time all-star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 In the category of FWIW, this would be my ballot. Maddux Thomas Glavine Raines Lee Smith If steroids weren't involved, I would have added Clemens and Bonds. Biggio is a borderline guy for me. Maybe Mike Mussina eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Morris should get in before Mussina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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