Marty34 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 23, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) We didn't lose out in 2012 because of DV. We lost out because Konerko and Dunn fell off a cliff after great starts, and the two pitchers who'd carried us were completely out of gas down the stretch. DV was consistently mediocre throughout the year - was actually much better than the other two in Sept.- and replacing him with Juan Pierre or whoever would NOT have made a difference - at least not in a positive way. But go ahead and keep pushing that. But we lost because Sale wasn't started in the minors the year previous? Please. Viciedo had no business playing against RH'ers after the All-Star break for a contending team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 23, 2014 -> 03:23 PM) But we lost because Sale wasn't started in the minors the year previous? Please. Viciedo had no business playing against RH'ers after the All-Star break for a contending team. And Dunn and Paulie did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 23, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) But we lost because Sale wasn't started in the minors the year previous? Please. Viciedo had no business playing against RH'ers after the All-Star break for a contending team. I did not say this. I have zero issues with how we handled Sale. '12 was only a skeleton of a contender as mgmt. acknowledged. Just that DV's performance in '12 ranks towards the bottom of reasons we didn't ultimately win the division. Edited February 23, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'm fine with this. Rienzo needs to work on his command at triple A. Hopefully Paulino can stay healthy. Would be nice and have Danks get back close to his usual self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 How about a six man rotation? The Sox have used it before, and if you are not contending it can save some of the wear and tear on your guys. Especially with Johnson and Paulino scheduled to throw more innings than ever before. I am not sure that Rienzo is even the sixth guy, but it might not be a terrible way to get a look at some guys while not over taxing anyones arm. Really doubt it will happen, but an out of the box way to handle the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) How about a six man rotation? The Sox have used it before, and if you are not contending it can save some of the wear and tear on your guys. Especially with Johnson and Paulino scheduled to throw more innings than ever before. I am not sure that Rienzo is even the sixth guy, but it might not be a terrible way to get a look at some guys while not over taxing anyones arm. Really doubt it will happen, but an out of the box way to handle the situation. Johnson threw nearly 170 innings in 29 starts in 2013. Not likely that he throws many more innings than that this year. Edited February 24, 2014 by HickoryHuskers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 11:36 AM) Johnson threw nearly 170 innings in 29 starts in 2013. Not likely that he throws many more innings than that this year. Isn't it typical for a starter to get ~200 innings/season based on a five man rotation, barring injuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) Isn't it typical for a starter to get ~200 innings/season based on a five man rotation, barring injuries? All of our starters this season, with the possible exception of Paulino, should be able to approach 200 innings without major fatigue, if necessary. Even Rienzo logged ~170 last year, if we need to get a large number from him due to injury or other circumstances. If we happen to surprise and compete, pitcher fatigue shouldn't be a major issue like it was in '12. Edited February 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 6-man rotation is a horrible idea. Here's what the need to shoot for: Sale, 34 starts, 230-240 innings Quintana, 33 starts, 215-225 innings Danks, 32 starts, 210-220 innings Johnson, 32 starts, 190-200 innings Paulino, 31 starts, 180-190 innings Obviously things come up during a season, but they should never plan for a 6-man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) 6-man rotation is a horrible idea. Here's what the need to shoot for: Sale, 34 starts, 230-240 innings Quintana, 33 starts, 215-225 innings Danks, 32 starts, 210-220 innings Johnson, 32 starts, 190-200 innings Paulino, 31 starts, 180-190 innings Obviously things come up during a season, but they should never plan for a 6-man rotation. This. Only with multiple pitchers incapable of getting to 200, but who need to build innings, should it even be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) This. Only with multiple pitchers incapable of getting to 200, but who need to build innings, should it even be considered. Isn't that what Johnson and Paulino are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Isn't it typical for a starter to get ~200 innings/season based on a five man rotation, barring injuries? A rookie is doing well to average 6 innings a start, so even if he makes 32 starts that's 192 innings, which is only 13% above what he did last year. I expect Sale, Quintana, and Danks to be over 200 innings, but that's pretty rare for a rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) A rookie is doing well to average 6 innings a start, so even if he makes 32 starts that's 192 innings, which is only 13% above what he did last year. I expect Sale, Quintana, and Danks to be over 200 innings, but that's pretty rare for a rookie. Everything would have to go right for Johnson to make 32 starts, and I do think he's capable of getting to 200 innings. More than likely though, there will be rainouts and doubleheaders where his start total will go down to 29-31, and he'll end up in the 180-185 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) Isn't that what Johnson and Paulino are? Ramping from 170 to 200 (or close to it) should not be a big deal. Pretty typical. In '12, for instance, Sale and Q started losing effectiveness only after exceeding previous loads by more than 50 innings. May be an issue with Paulino, but only if we're competing will it matter. Edited February 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) A rookie is doing well to average 6 innings a start, so even if he makes 32 starts that's 192 innings, which is only 13% above what he did last year. I expect Sale, Quintana, and Danks to be over 200 innings, but that's pretty rare for a rookie. Paulino had 27.2 IP last season, 51.1 IP in 2012 and a career high 139.1 IP in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 First of all, they have to start with the plan that gives them the best chance to make the postseason, and that involves having Sale, Quintana, Danks and Johnson pitching every 5th day not every 6th. Starting the year with a 6-man rotation is essentially conceding from Opening Day that you are not contending this year, and that is not an approach the Sox are willing to take. Secondly, a six man rotation for a full season is difficult to pull off with a 25 man roster, especially when you are using one roster spot for a backup DH. If the Sox are out of contention by mid-August, then it's something you look at doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If things go according to plan, I expect Paulino to start running out of gas at ~150 IP and for callups to start getting his starts in August/September. I also expect them to choose a longman (Leesman?) who can make spot starts for SPs that have non-DL injuries, and for Hahn to rely on jerking Axelrod up and down if someone hits the DL in the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't think it's realistic to expect more than 150 innings from Johnson, that's if he's good. Rookie pitcher on a team going nowhere, no reason to push him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Why is signing over 30 year old pitchers a bad idea, yet so many expect an over 30 pitcher who has pitched a combined 37 innings the last 2 years to suddenly set a career high in IP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Why is signing over 30 year old pitchers a bad idea, yet so many expect an over 30 pitcher who has pitched a combined 37 innings the last 2 years to suddenly set a career high in IP? I don't see Paulino as a guy who is going to go out and have a career year this year. I see him as a guy with big upside that has been hampered by injuries who might become a useful mid-rotation starter for very cheap in a couple years if things pan out. This is the kind of year when you stick him in the rotation to see what he's got, and you keep Rienzo at AAA to bring up if he doesn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 03:50 PM) I don't think it's realistic to expect more than 150 innings from Johnson, that's if he's good. Rookie pitcher on a team going nowhere, no reason to push him. Johnson threw 169 innings last year between the minors and the big leagues. Unless he gets hurt, the team should absolutely aim to throw hi for 175+ to condition his arm so that he's ready to go 200+ innings next year on a competitive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Johnson threw 169 innings last year between the minors and the big leagues. Unless he gets hurt, the team should absolutely aim to throw hi for 175+ to condition his arm so that he's ready to go 200+ innings next year on a competitive team. You clearly don't understand martymath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) Johnson threw 169 innings last year between the minors and the big leagues. Unless he gets hurt, the team should absolutely aim to throw hi for 175+ to condition his arm so that he's ready to go 200+ innings next year on a competitive team. Better hitters, more stressful pitching, probably means shorter outings. While he may be capable of pitching a lot of innings physically, it doesn't mean it is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Last year, only 12 AL pitchers pitched more than 210 innings. And only 21 made 32+ starts. So you're lucky if you have two guys that make all of their starts. That's ridiculously low, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) Better hitters, more stressful pitching, probably means shorter outings. While he may be capable of pitching a lot of innings physically, it doesn't mean it is going to happen. Assuming health though, you'd expect better than 5 innings a start. 150 innings over 32 starts is less than 5 innings a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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